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how to choose correct rivet lengths and compression depth?


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#1 Dragonfly

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Posted 23 February 2009 - 11:13 PM

When using the double domed cap jiffy rivets(from OTB) how do you choose or know what the correct length rivet is for thickness of leather? I have heard your post should extend 1/16" more than the thickness of leathers and I have heard 1/8" more than thickness. I have tried both measurement rules and still not happy with results. Maybe its my compression depth thats not correct. How far must I compress the rivets for proper set/hold? Just to the top of the leather or deeper into the leather compressing the leather some.
(EXAMPLE)- 1/4" leather thickness, should I use a 5/16" rivet post length and compress only to1/4" or compress further? Or should I use a 1/4" rivet on 1/4" leather thickness? I have no idea and I am wasting rivets and leather.

I am trying to properly rivet two pieces of leather together that are each 8-10 oz.weight, the total thickness of leather is roughly 1/4"-5/16" thick... should I use 1/4" or 5/16" post length rivet or what? And how far do I compress the rivets? Hope I make sense.

This rivet setting, (as small of a step as it is), is getting on my nerves... its sometimes ruining my projects. I have noticed even using my rivet setting machine that sometimes the rivets bend or appear slanted(maybe compressing too far but if I don't compress far enough they don't hold well. Maybe its just using too long a rivet?),

There has to be an easy formula or procedure to do this right. So that the rivets hold well, finish out straight and look good. PLEASE, PLEASE HELP. I appreciate it a lot. I really like the look of jiffy rivets and already have a mess that I want to use. I have tried tubular and others but don't like the look.---Jason

Edited by Dragonfly, 23 February 2009 - 11:17 PM.

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#2 Daggrim

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Posted 24 February 2009 - 12:42 PM

Dragonfly, I feel your pain.
The OTB jiffy rivets are, in my opinion, the bottom of the line, because of their imprecise compression fit. I've gotten the best result by having my rivet not stick up above the leather. The cap has a deep collar on it, and that goes way down below the surface of the leather to snug up on the rivet. If the rivet is higher than the surface , it's too long, and will bend over, weakening the pressure fit.
The Tandy style jiffy rivet is better because the rivet shaft peens over inside the cap, making a more secure fit. Those style rivets need to stick up abiove the leather to get a fit, about 1/8" to 3/16".
I made a helmet with the OTB rivets, and when I began giving them a real tug test, half of them pulled out. I will use my supply up, and not go back to them. There's a learning curve for getting them set. Taptaptap, not Bang.
Hope that helps
How thick is your leather? Because i found a real long 15 mm double cap jiffy rivet, that I had to order from Australia, if you need long ones.
Daggrim

#3 Dragonfly

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Posted 25 February 2009 - 08:54 AM

Thanks for the reply buddy. I really appreciate any and all help. The leather I use for 95% of my projects is 8-10 oz. skirting. Its usually around 1/8"-3/16" thick. I agree, the tandy rivets seems to be better and these OTB rivets stink. I am so fed up with both though that I am thinking about ditching the idea of rivets all together and just sewing right up to the top on everything. Thanks again for your insight, surprized no-one else chimmed in on this topic. :huh: ----Jason
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#4 Daggrim

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Posted 25 February 2009 - 09:39 AM

I s'pose most of these folks stitch or braid rather than rivet? Anyway, I just got my first box of copper rivets and I'm going to give them a try. It'll be more time consuming, but I plan to charge for that. I think it'll open up another avenue of customers ($).
Doug

#5 Leather Bum

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Posted 25 February 2009 - 10:38 AM

I was watching this topic with interest because I, too, have had trouble with the Ohio Travel Bag Jiffy Rivets. I haven't used rivets much but wanted to be able to if needed. The OTB rivets look pretty nice, and I noticed they don't have any sort of crimp on the tip like the others I purchased from Montana Leather Company. I've tried following the instructions in the Stohlman Leather Tools book for setting double-cap rivets, but the result was practically never what I wanted. I've tried to flatten the caps while setting the rivets because I gathered from other topics here that that possibly made them more secure. . .? If nothing else, the cap (or post, I'm not sure) would always have a dent about in the center. . . not a pleasing look.

Dragonfly, I feel your pain.
The OTB jiffy rivets are, in my opinion, the bottom of the line, because of their imprecise compression fit. I've gotten the best result by having my rivet not stick up above the leather. The cap has a deep collar on it, and that goes way down below the surface of the leather to snug up on the rivet. If the rivet is higher than the surface , it's too long, and will bend over, weakening the pressure fit.
The Tandy style jiffy rivet is better because the rivet shaft peens over inside the cap, making a more secure fit. Those style rivets need to stick up abiove the leather to get a fit, about 1/8" to 3/16".
I made a helmet with the OTB rivets, and when I began giving them a real tug test, half of them pulled out. I will use my supply up, and not go back to them. There's a learning curve for getting them set. Taptaptap, not Bang.
Hope that helps
How thick is your leather? Because i found a real long 15 mm double cap jiffy rivet, that I had to order from Australia, if you need long ones.
Daggrim

Thank you very much for this information, Daggrim. So if I'm understanding you right, you're saying the OTB jiffy rivets are not meant to be set like other double-cap rivets by forming the post inside the cap? That doesn't sound very secure, but it does make sense because I never could imagine how the post on these rivets is supposed to be crushed inside the cap. . .

I wonder if it would work very well to use some sort of glue or something on the post or cap to make the setting more secure. . .?

L'Bum

Edited by Leather Bum, 25 February 2009 - 10:40 AM.


#6 Daggrim

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Posted 25 February 2009 - 12:22 PM

The OTB rivets are just a pressure fit. I've whacked them until the shaft flattens out inside the head, and was still able to pull them apart with my fingernails. Seems like there's a sweet spot where they're nice and snug. I s'pose a drop of superglue would go a long ways toward making more of them permanent. Also, with experience, a person could probably master them.

I've gotten lots of help here regarding the copper rivets, but very little feedback on jiffy rivets.

Daggrim

#7 pete

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Posted 25 February 2009 - 01:38 PM

if it's any help= I use jiffy rivets a lot. I don't set them- I put a piece of leather scrap on the jaws of a pair of pliers and squeeze them until I feel it "pop". It's subtle but you can feel it give. Never had one pull out yet

#8 tashabear

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Posted 25 February 2009 - 04:04 PM

if it's any help= I use jiffy rivets a lot. I don't set them- I put a piece of leather scrap on the jaws of a pair of pliers and squeeze them until I feel it "pop". It's subtle but you can feel it give. Never had one pull out yet



There are some instances where you can't use pliers, though, so knowing how to set rivets properly is a boon.

#9 tonyc1

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Posted 25 February 2009 - 04:46 PM

I use one of the presses that I use for Durables to put in 2 piece rivits when I use them, and the adjustment is infinite, or just resort to the good old claw hammer!!!. The rivits I use come from Germany and I never seem to have any problems and they cost about $33.00 per thousand.
Tony.

#10 jimsaddler

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Posted 25 February 2009 - 07:40 PM

I use one of the presses that I use for Durables to put in 2 piece rivits when I use them, and the adjustment is infinite, or just resort to the good old claw hammer!!!. The rivits I use come from Germany and I never seem to have any problems and they cost about $33.00 per thousand.
Tony.

Hi Tony
You are right about the Hammer. That is all I have ever used and in time my Factory used probably millions of them for Sandal Buckles etc. Earlier on I tried Presses of all types and setters. Gave up as they all have failures. So back to a wide faced Hammer and a dull hit. Length is usually anything from just poking through the Surface to 1/8" poking out, all work well. The principal is that when you hit with the Hammer it burrs the shaft down when you hit the Cap. The Cap is flattened holding the burr in place. If done with a dull hit there is a nice Flat Rivet head looking at you neatly. No crown showing in the middle! The Hammer saved me a lot of problems as we stopped getting returns for Failed Rivets.
Kindest Regards.
Jim.





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