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#1 Tkleather1

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Posted 16 July 2009 - 06:30 PM

I am curious what is the best method to get a good tight wrap on the horn. I would like to use mule hide but cant find any apron splits. I do however have a bunch of latigo and was thinking about using that because that is what the saddle came with. So if any of you pros could fill me in on you method I sure would appreciate it.
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Tim
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#2 heath

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Posted 16 July 2009 - 06:44 PM

Just use a china man.
Heath

#3 Steve Brewer

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Posted 16 July 2009 - 07:36 PM

Tim ,Skife the edges.Soak the wrap a little and soap it.Tack the left side down and wrap.I use my hammer handle to pull it tight.Then put the tail under the tacked down part and pull tight.Now use the Chinaman to slick it down

#4 Tkleather1

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Posted 16 July 2009 - 07:51 PM

Tim ,Skife the edges.Soak the wrap a little and soap it.Tack the left side down and wrap.I use my hammer handle to pull it tight.Then put the tail under the tacked down part and pull tight.Now use the Chinaman to slick it down



ok some more ignorance showing here. what is it you are calling a Chinaman?

Tim ,Skife the edges.Soak the wrap a little and soap it.Tack the left side down and wrap.I use my hammer handle to pull it tight.Then put the tail under the tacked down part and pull tight.Now use the Chinaman to slick it down


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#5 Steve Brewer

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Posted 16 July 2009 - 08:07 PM

It's a piec e of latigo 1 3/4 wide x 4 foot long.A loop in one end and the eadges skived.Pull it aroun your horn a couple of wraps and put a stick or hammer handle and pull the slack out of your wrap

#6 Bob

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Posted 16 July 2009 - 08:18 PM

tim, if you head down to the hardware store and get yourself about a 30" replacement maul handle, and use that to get your leather tight. It works wonders. You will not require a chinaman anymore.

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#7 Bob

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Posted 16 July 2009 - 08:57 PM

I forgot to tell you how to use this thing, it's easy. Use the wrap itself, put two or three wraps around the end of the handle and walk around the horn, holding the leather in your other hand. If you have a good drawn stand, you shouldn't have any problems. If not, get some help to hold the saddle down. Failing that, use the handle to beat the help and throw it in the corner and follow the advice shown above. :) LOL hope it works, for the helpers sake...

PS, it works awesome for me. but my saddle stand doesn't move much. Besides your only gonna be out 5 dollars for a handle. There's always a learning curve when making saddles. OH by the way. depending on the direction your going with the wrap, (up the horn or down) try changing directions of the wrap around the end of the wooden pole, it will help you a lot to lay the leather where you want it....

Bob Goudreault
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#8 D.A. Kabatoff

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Posted 16 July 2009 - 11:49 PM

Hi Tim,

I've never tried Bob's method... If you decide to make a Chinaman wrap like Steve described, it helps to fold the handle end over twice for about 3"s so that it is triple layered, this helps prevent the hole from tearing when you get alot of tension on it. Sew the perimeter of the three layers and use about a 1" hole punch to cut a hole out of the center of the three layers...Stitch around the hole. You can stick your hammer handle through the hole or 1" hardwood dowel works well. You are going to want to wash the latigo in hot water with soap a few times to try and get rid of the dye in it which will come out on your horn wrap. Wrap your horn like Steve described and then use the Chinaman. When you want to use the wrap, soak it in water and wipe the excess off... apply some saddle soap to the wrap so that it will slip on the horn wrap (you'll know if the Chinaman is too dry because it won't slip). I usually wrap the Chinaman around the horn once, sometimes twice. When you wrap it around the horn, make sure the handle ends up against the horn, leaving the rest of the Chinaman as a tail. Start turning your handle around the horn in the direction you are tightening the wrap. I usually don't tack the second wing of the horn wrap so that when the Chinaman starts tightening everything, you can pull a little more slack out of the horn wrap itself. After you get it nice and tight, tack it down. I usually tighten my horn wraps while there is still some moisture in them (about the same consistency as cased leather) as this allows the Chinaman to burnish them as well. When they dry, they will shrink a bit as well and really be tight. Some guys wrap an inner tube around the horn while it dries so that the horn wrap doesn't back off while it is drying. I usually tighten my wraps last thing before I call it quits for the day and simply leave the Chinaman wrapped around the horn with tension on it. You can wedge the long side of the handle against the lower edge of the cantle to keep that tension on. I've posted a photo below of a wrap (sorry it isn't a better photo), you can see the edge of the wing on the back side of the horn... if you don't keep tension on the wrap while it dries, that edge will move about 1/8th" and leave a mark on the horn of where it originally was.

hope that helps

Darc

Posted Image

Edited by D.A. Kabatoff, 17 July 2009 - 12:06 AM.


#9 heath

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Posted 17 July 2009 - 06:40 PM

Much better put than my one sentence response. :16: I tend to be brief and very uninformative if you don't have an idea what I'm talking about.

Heath

Edited by heath, 17 July 2009 - 06:43 PM.


#10 jonwatsabaugh

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Posted 18 July 2009 - 01:35 AM

Here's a chinaman design I got from Cary Schwarz a few years ago when I was in his shop. I don't know how many I had torn out before he showed me his. You can really crank on this one...tightens up a mulehide or latigo wrap ooooh so tight! Start with a piece of latigo about 36" x 1 1/2". Each loop strand is 3/8" wide. Cut them long enough to suit (about 12") leaving about 4" on the end to sew as shown, twist the loops a quarter turn, skive the edges of the tail and you got one tough choker!

Jon

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#11 frontpost

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Posted 18 July 2009 - 01:18 PM

What is the weight of the latigo?
What a waste it is to lose one's mind. Or not to have a mind is being very wasteful. How true that is. :Dan Quayle



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#12 jonwatsabaugh

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Posted 18 July 2009 - 03:32 PM

I think mine was 8-9 oz. 6-7 oz. would work OK also.

Jon

#13 bruce johnson

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Posted 18 July 2009 - 10:51 PM

I have had Chinamans made out of three different materials. The original was latigo, and Darc is right about the soap and water to bleed out the excess dye. I retired it when I made one out of pearl apron split to use on those wraps. Soap them up good and they slick down pretty well, and have a lot of tensile strength. Ended up and got some dye on it last summer when everything got moved out of the shop, and I made one out of a horse butt. That was good but finally tore a few weeks ago.
My new one being made in the next few days should be the ticket. I am making it with "chrome elk" from Sheridan Leather. It is not elk, but is a full grain pearl apron leather. That should prevent the dye rub off problem. I have been looking for this leather for at least 3 years. Nobody seemed to know what I was talking about. I first saw it on a bronc saddle and wondered what that leather was on the bottom of the seat that was not worn out. I called Broken Arrow and he told me it was full grain pearl apron that he got several years ago. Yesterday at Elko, there it was in Vandy's display. BTW, it is reported to make really dandy hornwraps too.
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#14 steveh

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Posted 19 July 2009 - 09:19 AM

I have had Chinamans made out of three different materials. The original was latigo, and Darc is right about the soap and water to bleed out the excess dye. I retired it when I made one out of pearl apron split to use on those wraps. Soap them up good and they slick down pretty well, and have a lot of tensile strength. Ended up and got some dye on it last summer when everything got moved out of the shop, and I made one out of a horse butt. That was good but finally tore a few weeks ago.
My new one being made in the next few days should be the ticket. I am making it with "chrome elk" from Sheridan Leather. It is not elk, but is a full grain pearl apron leather. That should prevent the dye rub off problem. I have been looking for this leather for at least 3 years. Nobody seemed to know what I was talking about. I first saw it on a bronc saddle and wondered what that leather was on the bottom of the seat that was not worn out. I called Broken Arrow and he told me it was full grain pearl apron that he got several years ago. Yesterday at Elko, there it was in Vandy's display. BTW, it is reported to make really dandy hornwraps too.



Bruce,
question about the chrome elk. Is it cow hide? What is the weight in oz? What color is it, Is sold as side or a whole hide?
Thank you,
Steve

#15 bruce johnson

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Posted 19 July 2009 - 09:40 AM

Steve,
The "chrome elk" is 7/8 cow side. It is a very light gray/almost white color. The color is supposed to be very consistant, unlike some of the pearl apron splits I get that vary from steel gray to blue to white.
Bruce Johnson
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