[katfrye]

Does anyone know anything about the Cowboy sewing machines?
I need a light-medium weight leather sewing machine that will handle 3 to 4 layers of 2.5 to 3.0 wt garment leather and possibly Latigo. I make purses and cases as well as vests, not saddles or belts.
Thanks for any help
Kat Frye

[Randy Cornelius]

katfrye, on May 10 2008, 01:49 PM, said:

Does anyone know anything about the Cowboy sewing machines?
I need a light-medium weight leather sewing machine that will handle 3 to 4 layers of 2.5 to 3.0 wt garment leather and possibly Latigo. I make purses and cases as well as vests, not saddles or belts.
Thanks for any help
Kat Frye

I cannot commet about the cowboy sewing machines as I have never seen one up close or used one. One point that should be made is that they do not go to any of the shows and bring their machines for all to see. That would be one thing that would bother me. What have they got to hide? You should ask about service after the sale, that is one very importaint thing with a new machine.

If you are considering a new machine that will do everthing the Cowboy will do and more, at the same price. I would strongly suggest the Artisen Toro 3000, I bought one several years ago after going to the trade show at Sheridan. There, I was able to try all the major brands. The crew at Artisen will give you the best customer support I have ever seen from a product. Help is just a phone call away. I am not employed by them, just one of many satisified customers. Call Artisen and ask some questions.

Randy

[okiwen]

Randy Cornelius, on May 11 2008, 07:32 AM, said:

I cannot commet about the cowboy sewing machines as I have never seen one up close or used one. One point that should be made is that they do not go to any of the shows and bring their machines for all to see. That would be one thing that would bother me. What have they got to hide? You should ask about service after the sale, that is one very importaint thing with a new machine.

If you are considering a new machine that will do everthing the Cowboy will do and more, at the same price. I would strongly suggest the Artisen Toro 3000, I bought one several years ago after going to the trade show at Sheridan. There, I was able to try all the major brands. The crew at Artisen will give you the best customer support I have ever seen from a product. Help is just a phone call away. I am not employed by them, just one of many satisified customers. Call Artisen and ask some questions.

Randy

Point being, they are not the same price. Artisan is about $200 more. And, the feet are astronomically priced. Good machine though.

[rsg3]

I assume you are talking about Cowboy Sew. I got a 441 shortarm machine from Neel's Saddlery. It is almost identically equipped as the Artisan Toro 3000 (I say almost because i have only read specs. on the artisan website or flyers). Anyways, i know you asked about Cowboy sewing machines, my point is they(Cowboy Sew and Neel's saddelry) from what i was told have some kind of business thing going. They sell the same machines. If you look at Cowboy Sew website Ryan Neel is listed on there as some sort of engineer. I know I am rambling now, I have been very happy with my machine so far. I drove up to Neel's Saddlery and picked up my machine and they took about 2- 2 1/2 hours going over how to set up and use my machine. They were very friendly, and if i called them with "dumb" questions Ryan did not make me feel like a dummy. Plus, his price was about $100 to $200 cheaper than artisan. I am just trying to pass along my experience, i have only heard good things about Artisan, but for me i had to go with the money.

[boyjuki]

Neel's Harness and Toledo Sewing Machines both sell the Cowboy brand. They have been going to Sheridan, and Whichita Falls for almost two years now.

[Art]

Cowboy is a Chinese company that is consolidator. They take machines from other sewing machine manufacturers and resell them under the Cowboy logo. This is a quite common practice in China, the smaller manufacturers make only what they are expert at, and the big manufacturers with wide lines use these consolidators as another channel. Artisan does something similar but is based in California, they also go a little further in having some parts specifically made for the application e.g. leatherwork. A lot of the 441 clones come from a plant in Taiwan that has excelled in producing that product for rebranding.

Many of the Cowboy machines come from the Huigong No.3 plant in Shanghai and overall are very good machines. The Taiwan guys seem to make a business out of knocking off Juki and Adler and the occasional Pfaff, again these are very good machines.

One thing to recommend, if you are doing any amount of bagwork, you really need a cylinder arm machine instead of a flatbed. You don't have to put too many gussets in heavier weight bags until this becomes painfully apparent. Make sure the cylinder arm machine can be equipped with a stirrup or bag needle plate and right foot combinations that will allow you to sew bags readily.

The stirrup or bag plates tend to take quite a bit out of your machine's thickness capacity so you will need a bigger machine like a 441 clone of some type, either short (9") or long (16") arm length. If you do only lighter chrome tanned stuff, you may be able to get by with a medium duty flatbed, but you will limit your capabilities.

Artisan, Ferdco, Cowboy, and Sewmo are good brands to start your research with.

Art

[okiwen]

boyjuki, on May 12 2008, 08:39 PM, said:

Neel's Harness and Toledo Sewing Machines both sell the Cowboy brand. They have been going to Sheridan, and Whichita Falls for almost two years now.

Neel's feet don't seem to fit the Artisan very well. I am sure it is something that could be remidied with a bit of quality control but as of the ones I saw...no go. Really too bad. I wanted so buy some.

[raftert]

I bought the longarm 441 from Neel's Saddlery and it has been a very good machine. It has performed better than expectations. Ryan Neel will help you anytime and has a full line of extras at good prices.
Tim

[katfrye]

Thanks everybody for the info on the sewing machines! I really appreciate ya'lls opinions.
Kathy Frye

[esantoro]

okiwen, on May 13 2008, 01:25 AM, said:

Neel's feet don't seem to fit the Artisan very well. I am sure it is something that could be remidied with a bit of quality control but as of the ones I saw...no go. Really too bad. I wanted so buy some.

Hi Okiwen,

What problems have you had with the feet from Neel's?

Ed

[jimsaddler]

esantoro, on May 25 2008, 09:53 AM, said:

Hi Okiwen,

What problems have you had with the feet from Neel's?

Ed

In Defence of Cowboy / Neels / Master (in Australia) Heavy Duty Industrial Sewing Machines.
Hey These machines are GOOD! They are based on proven Machines (Juki 441) , but the price is lower. Is that all?
Nope, They are developed by Experienced Saddlers like me advising the Team at Cowboy what needs improving, to make them Better Machines.
I am one of those advisors. When I was asked to look at the Cowboy range I was told the "The aim of Cowboy is to supply only the Best Machines to the Leather, Saddlery and Harness Trades". My honest opinion is that they are doing it.
Recently I did a Customer survey asking if anything was wrong with these Machines. The only complaint recieved was" They don't break Needles".
I've used most of the various Trade Machines over my 45 years at the Bench including the Pro 2000 / Juki 441 and I based my advice to Cowboy on this. First thing I asked for was a decent 12inch Flywheel to aid low speed stitching and performance, Six weeks later it was a reality and has vastly improved the performance. Many minor improvements have been made to improve the performance which I won't go into here. But the underlying aim has allways been to achieve the near to perfect Saddlers Sewing Machine, with the best accessories to match. If they don't fit Artisan then something is wrong with Artisan, because I have fitted them on Highlead and the Pro 2000, easily, which are also based on the Juki 441. The Accessories are solid Stainless Steel which was my advice to them to use and the Price is cheaper because of the advice on how to make them. Actually the quality is superior also because of the process used.
Now I say this Ferdco Pro 2000 is a damm good machine and I take my hat off to them for developing this machine as probably the best improvement to a Saddlers Shop since the Pearson no6 and the Singer 45 K 25. Weve just quietely taken a few steps further as Saddlers tend to do and lifted the affordability and usability of the Machines so that everyone can afford them now.
I've watched all the comments putting Cowboy down, while biting my Tongue. So now lets be fair Artisan is a Good Machine, Cowboy is a Good Machine, Ferdco is a Good Machine. I know from Vast experience that the small problems of other brands have been tackled and solved by us advisors to Cowboy Sewing Machines. Also I know that if a Customer has a problem of any sort in using our Machines it will be solved by one of our Advisors who are available through out the World.
By the way I have a wee touch of experience in all Fields of the Trade including, Master Saddler & Harness Maker, Footwear, Leathergoods, Canvas and Marine.
Now please get on track you Guys & Gals, this is the first and last time I expect to have to defend Cowboy for doing such a good job in bringing First Class, affordable Trade quality Heavy Industrial Sewing Machines into the Market for all to use.
So now I'll butt out and go back to enjoying the core of this Forum which I gather is not a Commercial one.
My Field is Australian Saddles and Harness and you are welcome to pick my Brains anytime on this as I have and will share any Trade secrets you want and there is a wealth to share in the Grey stuff yet. But please don't use the Forum to sell one brand against the other, I know which is the best from Experience but I you have to ask me privately to get the answer.
Please all have a Happy Day.
Kindest Regards.
Jim.

This post has been edited by jimsaddler: 24 May 2008 - 09:33 PM

[bruce johnson]

Jim,
Thanks for the insight on the Cowboy machines. It is kind of hard to sort everything out sometimes. Ferdco and Artisan have been around for a while setting up at or putting on trade shows, and a history of advertising in the trade magazines. They just have the name recognition among a lot of us. The Cowboy line up is kind of the new kid on the block so to speak. It is nice to know they are not just an out of the box clone with nothing special done to them. I had the chance to talk briefly to Ryan at Sheridan, and enjoyed it. We all have our favorites, some we have bought by previous experience with the company, price, reputation, or advice from someone like yourself. Thanks for weighing in with your experience. This is the kind of stuff that Cowboy needs to bring up. Seems like there are more sellers of heavy machines now than a few years ago, and it is daunting to decide between the different ones.
Regarding the commercial aspects of the forum. Feel free to mention what you like from thread to handtools to machines. We all buy stuff and the collective experience of the forum means we are all better educated when we do. We won't all agree, and shouldn't. I only have sewing machines from one supplier that did me right on the first one, but have Ford, Chevy, and Dodge pickups in the driveway. I'm pretty open minded. LOL.

[K-Man]

I've had the opportunity to own both the Artisan machines and machines from Neel's Saddlery. I started out with the machines from Neel's Saddlery. The customer service, and equipment, ranks up there with all of those often mentioned here. I had great success with their machines in the making of top quality product. In one instance, we made some items for a young girl who competed in the costume contest at the Star Wars convention three years ago in Indianapolis. I made the holsters, gun belts, rifle sling, and most of the work on her vest. She won first place in the child's division. And for those who have had the opportunity to make items for the Star Wars reenactment players, you know the extent of the detail expected with their costumes. The Neel's machine handled that without any problem.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v107/Leathercrafter/Jen-StarWars.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v107/Leathercrafter/Jen-StarWars3.jpg

The only reason I moved over to Artisan machines a couple of years ago is because at the time Neel's Saddlery did not offer a comparable machine. I have two of the Artisan 3000's and one of their 618's. Neel's Saddlery does now have comparable machines. And in the last year I've bought one of their patcher machines.

IMO, a person cannot go wrong in the choosing of equipment from any of the companies mentioned here, and I would encourage folks to consider all the sources.

[okiwen]

esantoro, on May 24 2008, 05:53 PM, said:

Hi Okiwen,

What problems have you had with the feet from Neel's?

Ed

The fit and finish was not as clean as the feet from Artisan to begin with. The right side and left side outer feet would not go on at all. It would have required a bit of grinding or machining to get them to fit on. I don't have the tools to grind these.

The inside foot would not tighten down enough to keep the foot from turning and the hole was not quite long enough to allow the needle to pass without hitting the front of the foot.

Neels service was very good however. He returned my money very quickly and gave me no problems at all. I was left with the feeling that the problem would be solved sooner or later. I actually look forward to purchasing from him again if he can get what I need. I was very interested in the larger flywheel he tells me come on the machines he sells. No problems with Neel at all.

A comment was made that the suppliers make what they make and it is hard to get them to change when something is not quite right. They are hoping that the majority will work and that is what they are after.

I wish I knew what parts would fit what machines so that I can get those. I called another sellers of machines that look like the Artisan/Juki/Cowboy/etc. and they have all said that there are differences or inconsistancies that will make the items NOT able to interchange. Do I have the time or ability to go through a whole box of parts from each of these venders to find that one that will fit? No.

I have given my opinion and observations to those that I thought were interested in listening. I won't waste my time or theirs if they are not. Just the same, I don't want to waste my money (in very short supply) on people or companies that don't care to improve. I try to improve my leathercrafting and I would expect others to try to improve their skills or products as well.

It seems as though there are those that take anothers observations as a personal slight. That would be too bad. I would hope that whomever is making the Cowboy/Artisan/Whateverthehell brand would see this as an opportunity to improve a small thing that means alot to the user.

I am still looking for REASONABLY priced additions to my tools and appreciate the comments made in honesty here and other places. I have no bone to pick but what I think matters too. After all, I am the customer.

[jimsaddler]

okiwen, on May 26 2008, 01:07 AM, said:

The fit and finish was not as clean as the feet from Artisan to begin with. The right side and left side outer feet would not go on at all. It would have required a bit of grinding or machining to get them to fit on. I don't have the tools to grind these.

The inside foot would not tighten down enough to keep the foot from turning and the hole was not quite long enough to allow the needle to pass without hitting the front of the foot.

Neels service was very good however. He returned my money very quickly and gave me no problems at all. I was left with the feeling that the problem would be solved sooner or later. I actually look forward to purchasing from him again if he can get what I need. I was very interested in the larger flywheel he tells me come on the machines he sells. No problems with Neel at all.

A comment was made that the suppliers make what they make and it is hard to get them to change when something is not quite right. They are hoping that the majority will work and that is what they are after.

I wish I knew what parts would fit what machines so that I can get those. I called another sellers of machines that look like the Artisan/Juki/Cowboy/etc. and they have all said that there are differences or inconsistancies that will make the items NOT able to interchange. Do I have the time or ability to go through a whole box of parts from each of these venders to find that one that will fit? No.

I have given my opinion and observations to those that I thought were interested in listening. I won't waste my time or theirs if they are not. Just the same, I don't want to waste my money (in very short supply) on people or companies that don't care to improve. I try to improve my leathercrafting and I would expect others to try to improve their skills or products as well.

It seems as though there are those that take anothers observations as a personal slight. That would be too bad. I would hope that whomever is making the Cowboy/Artisan/Whateverthehell brand would see this as an opportunity to improve a small thing that means alot to the user.

I am still looking for REASONABLY priced additions to my tools and appreciate the comments made in honesty here and other places. I have no bone to pick but what I think matters too. After all, I am the customer.

Dear Okiwen
Point taken!
This is my aim, To supply "the best Machine and accessories for the Leather Trade at the Best Price". Cowboy are behind me all the way. I also know that Ryan Neel has the same aim.
I'm very surprised that the Feet didn't fit? I'll pass the comment on to Cowboy and they WILL make sure that it is rectified ASAP. Feedback is what has helped me to advise properly. The centre foot not clamping down properly is a mystery to me as the fit is usually very close and a minimum tension needed to clamp it.
Your comment about the majority being being catered for is enough, is right, as I percieved over 40 years ago. That is why I am with Cowboy all the way, they want comment. They are with me also because they love the feedback that I give them. This is why they are using Experienced Saddlers as Distributers.
Take the large Flywheel. I used to operate a Pro 2000, a very good Machine. The Flywheel was too small to walk stitches through and not enough weight to give good Torque. Also there were a number of little things that were not quite right. That was what you get was a comment that was given, adapt.
Hey when I was asked by Cowboy to sujest what needs improving and I said Big Flywheel. Within 6 weeks it was a reality. They won me. So ever since I have made a lot of sujestions including the Stainless Steel Accessories and all have been acted on, as will yours. We need this!
So Crafts People! Send us any other comments, they will be appreciated and acted on.
I'm not trying to cut others out of the Market, but I am trying to get improvements in what we use in our Craft at a reasonable price. So send those comments please.
Kindest Regards. Jim.

[esantoro]

I have the Neel's Model 6 (441 long arm). All is great. Ryan is great. I use a combination of Neel's plates and feet and Artisan's feet. Sometimes I do need to make height adjustments and rotation adjustments by messing with a few bolts. I have written about this in a post somewhere. By messing with these adjustments I have found a happy medium.

My thinking is that these adjustments will be factory set differently, depending on the distributor, but with a little understanding the proper adjustments can be made.


I'll be sure to post another question, because there are two bolts for whose purpose I'd like to know.


ed

jimsaddler, on May 25 2008, 08:10 PM, said:

Dear Okiwen
Point taken!
This is my aim, To supply "the best Machine and accessories for the Leather Trade at the Best Price". Cowboy are behind me all the way. I also know that Ryan Neel has the same aim.
I'm very surprised that the Feet didn't fit? I'll pass the comment on to Cowboy and they WILL make sure that it is rectified ASAP. Feedback is what has helped me to advise properly. The centre foot not clamping down properly is a mystery to me as the fit is usually very close and a minimum tension needed to clamp it.
Your comment about the majority being being catered for is enough, is right, as I percieved over 40 years ago. That is why I am with Cowboy all the way, they want comment. They are with me also because they love the feedback that I give them. This is why they are using Experienced Saddlers as Distributers.
Take the large Flywheel. I used to operate a Pro 2000, a very good Machine. The Flywheel was too small to walk stitches through and not enough weight to give good Torque. Also there were a number of little things that were not quite right. That was what you get was a comment that was given, adapt.
Hey when I was asked by Cowboy to sujest what needs improving and I said Big Flywheel. Within 6 weeks it was a reality. They won me. So ever since I have made a lot of sujestions including the Stainless Steel Accessories and all have been acted on, as will yours. We need this!
So Crafts People! Send us any other comments, they will be appreciated and acted on.
I'm not trying to cut others out of the Market, but I am trying to get improvements in what we use in our Craft at a reasonable price. So send those comments please.
Kindest Regards. Jim.

[Leather stitcher]

okiwen, on May 13 2008, 12:25 AM, said:

Neel's feet don't seem to fit the Artisan very well. I am sure it is something that could be remidied with a bit of quality control but as of the ones I saw...no go. Really too bad. I wanted so buy some.

Dear Kevin,

This is the great club for leather workers. However I am too busy to be here very often. As the manufacturer, it’s more important for us to create the value of our machines by actual actions, included improving quality, service and performance of machine, I think.

Our dealer in Australia, Jim found your comments, and informed me.

Kevin, thank you for your information. Our parts were made base on Juki TSC 441 original model, also it should be interchangeable with Artisan. If these parts could not work for your machine, please inform to our dealers directly, they will help you out!

Our machine and parts might have fault, as well as other brand machine. But one thing can be sure that Cowboy offering best service in sewing machine trade.

Thanks again for your information, as well as Jim.

Best wish to all!

Bill

This post has been edited by Leather stitcher: 25 May 2008 - 09:46 PM

[Leather stitcher]

Art, on May 12 2008, 11:49 PM, said:

Cowboy is a Chinese company that is consolidator. They take machines from other sewing machine manufacturers and resell them under the Cowboy logo. This is a quite common practice in China, the smaller manufacturers make only what they are expert at, and the big manufacturers with wide lines use these consolidators as another channel. Artisan does something similar but is based in California, they also go a little further in having some parts specifically made for the application e.g. leatherwork. A lot of the 441 clones come from a plant in Taiwan that has excelled in producing that product for rebranding.

Many of the Cowboy machines come from the Huigong No.3 plant in Shanghai and overall are very good machines. The Taiwan guys seem to make a business out of knocking off Juki and Adler and the occasional Pfaff, again these are very good machines.

One thing to recommend, if you are doing any amount of bagwork, you really need a cylinder arm machine instead of a flatbed. You don't have to put too many gussets in heavier weight bags until this becomes painfully apparent. Make sure the cylinder arm machine can be equipped with a stirrup or bag needle plate and right foot combinations that will allow you to sew bags readily.

The stirrup or bag plates tend to take quite a bit out of your machine's thickness capacity so you will need a bigger machine like a 441 clone of some type, either short (9") or long (16") arm length. If you do only lighter chrome tanned stuff, you may be able to get by with a medium duty flatbed, but you will limit your capabilities.

Artisan, Ferdco, Cowboy, and Sewmo are good brands to start your research with.

Art

Dear Art ,

Thanks for your comments.

It happened 3 years ago.

Now we build leather sewing machines by ourselves, sail making machines as well!

Cowboy, Artisan, Ferdco and Sewmo, all from China.

Best regards,
Bill

[gunfighter48]

I have a Neel's Model 5 machine and it's a great machine for the price. I couldn't afford (and still can't) a $2,000 - $3,000 machine. The Model 5 let me start making heavy gun belts for people that carry a concealed weapon. Ryan Neel is a terrific guy to do business with. Extremely helpful at any time for any problem. He goes out of his way to make sure you get the best his machines will deliver. He's even advised me on other makers parts that will work with his Model 5. He provides customer service to the Artisan standard and that's saying something!! I have dealt with the Artisan folks and their service is first rate by any standards.

John

[Art]

Hello Bill,

Your Sailmaster SM 366-76-12HA is apparently built by a company in the city of Wujiang in Jiangsu province called:

Suzhou Wanping Sewing Equipment Co., Ltd.

Their brand name is BAOJIA and I have seen and worked on one of their machines at a major sailmaker here in Annapolis.

The machine Ryan is sitting at on your website is a GA2688-1 which is made in the Shanghai Huigong No.3 Sewing Machine Factory (I have two of these, they are a great machine). That company's brand name is Highlead, and they also rebrand for others including Cowboy and Artisan.

The Cowboy CB 0318 is indeed a Huigong No.3 machine also, the GC0318.

I guess I just need some clarification on "Now we build leather sewing machines by ourselves, sail making machines as well!".

None of this is much of a problem IF the machine is good, AND IF two and two add up to four. If both parts aren't present, then confidence will not be high.

Art

Leather stitcher, on May 25 2008, 10:53 PM, said:

Now we build leather sewing machines by ourselves, sail making machines as well!

Best regards,
Bill