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Drawdown Stand


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#1 cowdog128

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Posted 02 March 2011 - 07:13 PM

Howdy folks anybody out there got a good set of plans/list of materials for a drawdown stand i could build starting in the saddlery business and trying to get my shop set up and such thanks everybody for your help and happy trails.------Hank

#2 Randy Cornelius

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Posted 02 March 2011 - 11:57 PM

There are plans for the draw down stand in the Al Stohlman saddlemaking ency. V-1
Randy Cornelius
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#3 Lamplog

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Posted 06 March 2011 - 01:54 PM

Hi Hank,
Good luck getting started in the saddle business. Here is a picture of one I built. It is a hydraulic salon chair base $15.00 from local craigslist. I just concocted some pipe 1-1/2" to attach to the base or get it welded. and made the wood saddle rack from some hardwood I had. I think it ran me about 50.00 total. I just used 2 - 1 1/2 inch straps on each side. Have to be careful cause you can pump it up enough to break the straps. I like it cause I can work on something from a chair and it will swivel and stop, has a brake in it, and it spins 360. I am working on another that will have a panavise in it, so I can sew my cantles a little easier. I could take some more pics if you are interested.

Tom

Attached Files


Edited by Lamplog, 06 March 2011 - 01:57 PM.


#4 gtwister09

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Posted 06 March 2011 - 02:46 PM

Hank,

Just a word of caution about the Stohlman design...it is fairly good except that the front is fairly high in the front end. In fact I would say it is too high in the front end. Thsi makes the front of the tree sit higher than it would on a real horse. The issue is that a saddle will look good on the stand but appears to run downhill from the back to the front when placed upon a horse....not good. Youa re striving to keep bottom of the skirt line parallel to the ground as it is placed upon a horse.

If you would like do a search for the observations about the Stohlman drawdown issues, I know that Troy West and some others...maybe Bruce, Greg and some others (can't remember exactly) have made some similar comments and observations as well.

Tom,

Some additional photos and especially some with the panavise would be neat. I picked up three of them and have been compiling some pictures and measurements of various barber models. Any information, measurements and additional photos would be neat to add to the collection of ideas.

Regards,
Ben

#5 GrampaJoel

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Posted 06 March 2011 - 06:43 PM

I would like to see photos of you draw down with the panavice also. I have found a man who would be happy to weld me up a draw down setup.

#6 Lamplog

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Posted 07 March 2011 - 10:08 AM

I try to be somewhat of a traditionalist when I can. So I do not want to take anything away from some of those styles. I made this one up, It is easy to build, you do not need a welder, and it was fairly cheap. Here are the materials I used.

1 - hydraulic salon chair - local craigslist 10.00-50.00. - alot of them have a seal gone .15 cents at the hardware store and some oil.
2 - 1 1/2" boiler pipe flange 5.00 ya might need to make an adapter to bolt to the salon chair ram to. It comes with a universal metal base that connects to the chair. The rams are 1.000" in dia. I just ran 4 bolts with washers and bolted to the pipe flange, would like to maybe weld this together at some point.

This could be all one piece and welded solid about 17 to 18" total.
1- 1 1/2" x 12" pipe extension 7.50
1- 1 1/2" x 3" pipe extension 3.50
1- 1 1/2" coupler 3.50

2- 1/2 or 5/8 eyebolts and nuts 5.00
misc- bolts, nuts, screws
2- 2 x 8 x 24 pieces of lumber I used hardwood I had here.
1 - 2 x 6 x 12-16 piece of lumber.

should be able to make this for under a $100.00

Optional
Panavise 400 heavy duty base 30.00
Panavise 437 1" heavy duty fixture head 20.00
might want a couple of these to mount on different saddle mounts.

What I have now works great for a drawdown. Like I said its real easy to break straps on this thing. It will provide enough compression that it might be possible to break a tree. So careful! One very small issue is that when you go to release it it will pump up about a inch before it comes down, applying additional torque, that is when I have broken a strap. I started out with 1" 15oz straps. Went to 1 3/4" and would like to make a pair that are doubled up, for what reason I am not sure, might have to strap down a elephant or jack up my truck with it some day! I really like it because I can stretch my stirrups on it and shape them also. Just wet em, twist and give her a pump or two and leave em for a day or two, can even do it while you are working on another part of the saddle. I just have a strap that I run through the stirrups and it puts the right shape on them, even gives them just a bit of angle if ya mount the strap on the inside of the stirrup bottom. I would like to make a saddle base with the stirrup slots cut out the same as on the tree and so I do not have to use a saddle or tree I am working on.
You could probably use this with the panavise but would need to make some type of strap that runs through the saddle base and then to the eyebolts. I am thinking that I will buy another fixture head and mount a pair of hinges and a turnbuckle that will attach to the top of the stirrup slots from the inside. I think I saw a picture of one somewhere but it is not mine. Also I would replace the black plastic nut on the panavise with maybe a ratchet welded on there not that you would want to put a lot of torque on it but just to make it easier to tighten and loosen. Whats nice though is that you can have a few fixture heads on one panavise saddle base and swap them out, so you only need one hydro stand. If ya all have some better ideas, I would like to hear or seem em that would be great. Like I said this was quick and easy and I did not put a lot of thought into it, but I would like to maybe improve on it sum, so all ideas are welcome. Also it has a rubber piece around the base so it slides around my shop pretty easy. Hope some of this helps!

So total for the whole deal you should not have to spend more than 150.00.

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#7 GrampaJoel

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Posted 07 March 2011 - 01:00 PM

Lamplog
Thank you very much for the instructions info and the photos.
They will help me a lot!
Joel

#8 cowdog128

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Posted 07 March 2011 - 02:06 PM

Thanks to everybody that commented for your help i am really excited to hopefully be getting into what i consider to be a dieing art and am truely thankful that there are so many experienced people willing to take their time to help me out again thanks a bunch and i am sure to be asking more later on. Happy trails

#9 gtwister09

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Posted 07 March 2011 - 08:47 PM

Tom,

You are a gentleman and a scholar! Thanks. I will take a better look at this.

Regards,
Ben

#10 Denise

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Posted 07 March 2011 - 09:20 PM

Jake,
I'd like to share a thought that I hope will be helpful. The Stohlman design is a good design except it is too high in the front end. This means your tree will sit higher in the front on your stand than it will when sitting on a real horse. What will happen is your saddle will look great on your stand, but when you put it on a horse your skirts will run downhill from back to front. The bottom skirt line will not be parallel to the ground when on a horse. I see this on a lot of saddles and it is a result of the tree not sitting on the drawdown with the same degree as it does on a real horse.

One way to compare this is with a tree, a ruler, and a level. You'll need a horse with nice conformation as well. Set the tree on the horse. Hold the ruler against the back of the cantle, just resting on the top of the bar as close to the center of the cantle as possible. You'll need a level about 2 ft. long. Set one end of the level on top of the horn and hold the other end against the ruler in the rear. Get your bubble level by raising or lowering the back end of the level while holding it against the ruler. When level, take note of the measurement against the ruler, say the top of the level against the ruler says 7 3/4", that becomes your standard.
Take your tree back to your drawdown and repeat this. Set the level on the horn and the ruler against the cantle back and now set the top of the level at the 7 3/4" mark. Now raise the back of the tree up until the bubble is level. The space between the back of the bars and the drawdown is how much the back of the stand should be raised. On that Stohlman stand it will probably need to be raised 2 to 3"in the rear.
That amount really affects a lot of things, including how the groundseat is built and how you actually sit when on a horse, not to mention all your other lines.

I know this sounds like a lot of trouble but it will be very important to the look and quality of all of your future saddles, so it is very foundational. I hope I explained this adequately and I hope you find it helpful.

I wish you the best,
Troy West

Here are Troy's comments on how to set up your stand so it sets your tree the same as it would be sitting on a horse.

#11 gtwister09

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Posted 07 March 2011 - 10:03 PM

Denise,

Thanks! That's the same post that I was thinking about. I guess I could have added the link for it but thought that a search for TroyWest and drawdon stand would have quickly yielded it. Sorry Hank.



Tom,

One suggestion is to change the drawdown strap from being tied to the base to something that is mounted under the saddle. This makes it independent on the raise/lower mechanism of the barber chair stand. There have been several discussions on the design differences between the Weaver model that has the drawdown strap attached at the base versus Ron Tools model that mounts it independent of this which allows you to still raise and lower the saddle or spin it with the drawdown strap attached.

Here's a quick look of Ron's model to show how he attaches it and also his tightening mechanism for the drawdown strap.

Attached File  drawdown.jpg   20.92KB   204 downloads

Here's one of those discussions.

Saddle Builders Stand

Regards,
Ben

Edited by gtwister09, 07 March 2011 - 10:08 PM.






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