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Need Some Help, Rawhide Braided Sheath


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#1 trutexan36

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Posted 18 July 2011 - 01:18 PM

Hey guys I have been reading on this site for awhile, never actually in the Braiding forum. I have been tooling leather for a little over a year, belts, wallets and now I am toying with the ideal of knife sheaths. I've seen some people wearing knife sheaths made of braided rawhide and I want to try my hand at making it.

Can anyone help with tips, tricks, what braids I need to use and how to make the sheath hold it's shape?

Thanks guys.. Also here are some pictures to show what I am talking about.

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#2 trutexan36

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Posted 18 July 2011 - 10:04 PM

No body has any ideas?

#3 rawhide1

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Posted 18 July 2011 - 10:34 PM

I have a idea but I don't know if it's right. If I was to do it I would take a thin piece of leather probably skirting. Maybe a once or two so it's not to bulky. I would basically make a sheath for the knife with the leather. Except I would skive the edges all the way down and glue them together. So it would be seamless. I would then cover it with a long pineapple knot. It looks like one of the sheaths has a gaucho interweave(V's running around) so you could go that route. It's just a different way of braiding the turks head. That is just how I would try it. It may or may not work. Grants encyclopedia of rawhide and leather braiding will have the knots plus many more. He has a smaller book(cheaper) I can't remember the name that may get you through it. While the pineapple knot isn't to hard to learn okay it may be kinda of hard. Learning to expand it can make you pull your hair out. I would also just use one string some folks like to use multistring knots I prefer one string unless it's a real long knot. Enough rambling!!

Good luck and feel free to ask more questions if I haven't cornfused you enough!!

Mike

#4 trutexan36

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Posted 18 July 2011 - 11:20 PM

Mike, thanks for the response. I saw Grants encyclopedia today for $50 so I had to pass it up. I am going to try and do a little internet searching and see if I can come up with it any cheaper. I bought some of the plastic thread that everyone plays with as kids to try my hand at this without wasting $25 dollar rawhide. I will post pictures as I make progress and hopefully soon will be able to post a final product!

Thanks again!

#5 CharlieR

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Posted 19 July 2011 - 04:35 PM

There are some superior braiders on here...give them a little time to find the thread and I'm sure you will get more responses....

#6 Aggiebraider

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 12:52 AM

So, I myself have a sheath like this that I bought (I know its sacrilegious for a braider to actually buy a braided piece) but I liked it and couldnt figure out how to do it so I got one. It is a 6 strand gaucho button (not sure # of bights or parts as this will change depending on the size of the knife). The only thing I dont like about the gaucho is that since the parts go horizontally rather than vertically like in a herringbone, there is a springy action to the sheath. Now that does make it nice when you go to take it out, you can push up on the bottom of the sheath and it forces the knife up a little to make for easier retrieval, but it doesnt look very nice. I tried to make one a year or so ago and it didnt turn out well lol. At the time i didnt know how to make a multi string button and tried it with one strand and due to the strange shape of the knife it was really difficult and i stopped after about an hour lol. If I were going to make one, I would cover your knife in serran wrap or something else to protect it and give you a little extra space so its not a completely tight fit. Then I would do an 8 strand multi string button directly over the knife. This is really difficult because you dont really have a way to actually hold the knife securely while still giving you room to braid over it. Well at least I dont have a way. Then once your foundation is down, just fill in the gaps with interweaves. The real trick comes into making the belt loop. You need to have something secure that isnt going to stretch and wont come out. I dont think splicing one in would be very effective unless maybe you super glued the pieces in once they were spliced, but i wouldnt do that. I would probably make a strap, put a PK knot at each end and then attach a ring knot at the top and bottom of the strap around both the strap and the sheath. I havent seen one done that way, but not saying it hasnt been done already.

You could also tie the knot on something else like a dowel and then tighten it on the knife to get the necessary shape and form, but sizing it correctly when its loose on a dowel can be really difficult and its hard to make a knot cover a larger area once its already tied.

I commend you for finding a project to start on, but I can tell you from past experiences, these are really difficult to make (which is why not even many braiders make them), and to start to learn how to braid on something like this will most likely just frustrate you. Not to discourage you one bit, take that as more of a warning. As you will see if you still decide to try your hand at braiding, it can be extremely frustrating to learn, but will be very rewarding once you feel you have a handle on it.

Hope this helps,
CW

#7 rawhide1

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 07:50 PM

I've been thinking about that damn sheath now for a couple of days. LOL Now I've got to try and make one. I'll try and take pictures along the way just in case it works out. With trying to get kids ready for the county fair and other orders it may be a week or two. If anyone else has any other ideas pass them along.

Mike

#8 roo4u

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 08:28 PM

in bruce grants encyclopedia there is a picture of an eyeglass case...it is covered with an elongated turkshead knot...i would guess you need to do something like that over a molded form of leather or rawhide. there are a few other braids and knots in that book that could be used to make those types of cases...well worth purchasing...it is 20 dollars on amazon.com
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#9 trutexan36

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 11:26 PM

Hey guys, Sorry I haven't replied. I've been making some other sheath while I ponder on this one a bit more lol. CW, thank you for the detailed description, I am going to study the knots that you mention more before I attempt this. I also noticed you were a fellow Aggie! We may have to meet up sometime and talk about leather!!

Mike, I haven't stopped thinking about this sheath since I first saw one LOL, I hope one day, with the collective opinions of this forum I will be able to braid my own!! When you get around to it post the pictures of what you have come up with!

Tracy, I went and looked at a few pages in the book and the closest thing I could come up with was Plate 136 or 137. Do you think either of these would work?

Thanks again!

#10 KnotHead

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Posted 22 July 2011 - 12:11 AM

I miss having Ron Edwards around. His books are just amazing.

This might help ya'll out a bit. Ron Edwards Knife Knot.

See attached images;

Attached File  192.jpg   174.72KB   251 downloads Attached File  193.jpg   155.33KB   285 downloads Attached File  194.jpg   183.09KB   249 downloads Attached File  195.jpg   187.99KB   173 downloads

Have fun...

B...
Best Regards,
Brian Kidd

#11 roo4u

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Posted 22 July 2011 - 12:42 AM

i think the one in plate 137 would work very well, because it would also give you a covered bottom end of the sheath. the other one would work as well but would not cover the bottom as well. also check out plate 86...the lone star braid...it would cover the bottom of the sheath and gives a pattern thats a texas favorite...there are numerous other braids which would work as well.....i love this book.
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#12 trutexan36

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Posted 25 July 2011 - 12:37 AM

Sorry been out of town and disconnected from the internet for the weekend lol!

I will start work on this project soon and post photos as I go along!!

#13 CWR

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Posted 25 July 2011 - 01:00 PM

I have made several of these. I use the same multi string knot that I use to do a nose button on a bosal. I braid them over a piece of sucker rod a little bigger than the knife diameter. This makes it easier to get off the mandrel. The first ones I made I braided over wood or wood and leather and it's hard to get the rawhide to slide off without messing up the button. Just start your knot a little longer than you want the sheath to be and braid down to the end of the mandrel. The knot will naturally close up around the end. I end all the strings that split the paralells at the bottom. After you pull it off the mandrel push them bottom up into the sheath just a little to make the bottom flat. The belt loop is a simple four strand flat braid. Put your knifwe init while it is still damp and it will take the knife shape. You can braid them with a gaucho or herring bone braid.

CW

Edited by CWR, 25 July 2011 - 01:01 PM.

1 Thessalonians 4: 11,12


#14 troy

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Posted 27 July 2011 - 09:37 AM

I miss having Ron Edwards around. His books are just amazing.

This might help ya'll out a bit. Ron Edwards Knife Knot.

See attached images;

Attached File  192.jpg   174.72KB   251 downloads Attached File  193.jpg   155.33KB   285 downloads Attached File  194.jpg   183.09KB   249 downloads Attached File  195.jpg   187.99KB   173 downloads

Have fun...

B...


In referance to the patterns by ron, the first sheath on this thread - http://leatherworker...showtopic=33393 - is made from this knot - it does produce a hole at the narrow end but as long as the knots longer then the blade it works fine - wish I could give dimensions but probably gave it away ages ago.

The patrons and whip braiders of the australian whipmakers association seem to be the best at coming up with great knots and solution for covering round objects etc - apart fro ron look out for a guy called bedford belford, he's a genious.

Edited by troy, 27 July 2011 - 09:38 AM.

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#15 JamesRoss

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 12:31 PM

Would anyone be interested in emailing me a copy of the Ron Edwards knife knot plates. The text is to blurry for me to read in the pictures already posted. Thanks! JR





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