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The truth about neatsfoot oil


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#1 bruce johnson

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Posted 13 October 2006 - 12:15 AM

Recently there have been some posts by people on how NOT to use neatsfoot oil by those who admittedly do not use neatsfoot oil on products they themselves do not make. Suspect advice when you give out information on things you don't on products you yourself don't make. They have made claim that Al Stohlman himself said it migrates, then gave their own definition of migration, and talk about some bad experience thay had overusing it sometime in the past. Go so far as to give specific instructions that they would not use it on any part of the saddle that would come in contact with the rider's clothing. Safe advice, since they don't make saddles.
First off Al Stohlman is A saddlemaker, not THE saddle maker. A lot can be learned from him but there are others too. We all take things from everyone, some things we learn to do, and some don't work for us and our leather. But he mentions in all three of his books on saddlemaking that he uses NF oil (and also a lot of NF oil compound) on all parts of the saddle. He includes the fenders and seat. On all four saddles he shows how to build he specifically mentions and shows oiling these parts. Bear in mind that these were the last books Al Stohlman wrote. Written when he had the most experience, and many of the more recent products were available. Probably the most read of any of the saddlemaking books published. The next two most widely read would probably be Dave Jones book and Harry Adams, Jr's Books. Both of them specifically mention using NF oil (or olive oil). The Harry Adams book mentions having a gallon on hand, I probably don't use quite that quantity on two. These are respected sources and not some anecdotal second hand reply.

The instructions given by Al Stohlman specifically tell you how to apply NF oil, how not to overapply NF oil and the benefits. Al felt like NF oil pentrated all layers of the leather the best. Which according to my impression of migration would mean it "migrated" the best. He felt like Lexol was more of a surface conditioner. This information is available in Volume I. I am not disagreeing with him on Lexol, but I think that is a factor of application method. Apply enough Lexol with a sheepskin swatch and it will go all the way through. Apply NF oil or Lexol with a flannel and it won't be as obvious.
The question was asked, why use NF oil? Good question. One is that it is proven to give consistant results. Another is that is gives good "color" to leather and conditions it. It does migrate, and so lubricates all layers of the leather. It has (anecdotally) been one of the longer lasting lubricants for the leather fibers. It has stood the test of time.
Can NF oil be over used? of course!!! That can be done with any leather conditioner. Put Hide Rejuvenator (one of my favorites too ) on a saddle on a hot day, and it will take all you put on - and be overconditioned. Just because you didn't know better and overoiled or over conditioned your leather with whatever conditioner you choose, DO NOT blame the conditioner. You put it on, you messed it up. You can always add more if you need it later. If you put too much of anything on, live and learn.
The darkening factor of oils has been brought up. If anyone knows of any product or leather that will not darken when used or exposed to sunlight, let me know. That is the nature of using leather. I would much rather see one of my projects dark and thin and worn out from use in ten years, than new looking and light in 50 years. I am not talking about a figure carving picture, I am talking about using leather - belts, purses, checkbooks, planners, saddles - that distinction has not been made with past advice. Leather is dead - it doesn't last forever. You condition it to last longer. Most astute buyers realize their belt or saddle will end up darker than when it is new. If they don't, educate them now. A lot of my customers would probably prefer it darker to start with. Some makers purposely solar age their new products to give them that patina of age.
Many of you know I make several different type of tooled and carved projects. Pocket business card holders to saddles. Almost everything I do has been oiled (with a paint roller!) - for color and/or conditioning if for no other reason. I try not to overoil, and use a good finish to keep it in the leather. Have had zero bleed off complaints from the oil. How many customers will ever oil their checkbook cover again? I use NF straight or with varying levels of ProDye in it to color it for the project I am doing. I buy several gallons annually, and use them.
I am interested to see how others use NF oil, and expereinces plus and minus from the users.

Respectfully,
Bruce Johnson
Bruce Johnson
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"the windshield's bigger than the mirror, somewhere west of Laramie" - Dave Stamey
Leather Work and Leather Tools - www.brucejohnsonleather.com

#2 abn

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Posted 13 October 2006 - 09:45 AM

...posts by people on how NOT to use neatsfoot oil by those who admittedly do not use neatsfoot oil on products they themselves do not make. Suspect advice when you give out information on things you don't on products you yourself don't make.


Huh? Speak English, Bruce. Greg doesn't like neatsfoot oil, and you do. So what? Frankly, if you ask 100 leatherworkers a question about a certain technique, you'd probably get a 100 different expert opinions on why their particular method is best. It makes life interesting. :)

My feeling is this: listen to the folks that have opinions, then test them on your own work. See what works for you. I've used neatsfoot oil and I've used Lexol. Both seem to work just fine for my purposes. However, I'm not a saddlemaker, so maybe you have different needs than I do. That's cool.

-Alex

#3 Gregory B. Moody

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Posted 13 October 2006 - 11:27 AM

Alex is correct on several levels...Bruce, feel free to use my name when you are talking about something I have said... and I have always suggested that people try out suggestions themselves... even good suggestions should be tried out on a practice piece before applying it to some project which has a bunch of money and labor already invested in it...
Bruce, you have changed what I said and you have assumed things due to your opposition to my statement which are not true. I am not talking about pictures hanging on a wall when I say I have 45 year old examples of projects which look new. I am talking about things like wooden chairs which were covered with carved leather....and a Bible cover... which has gotten lots of handling over the years because it is the most severe example of embossing from the backside which I have ever seen... it was made by my father in 1961 and given to me... so the example is something which has been in the hands of lots of people and has a fold ... two criteria which I expect a good finish to be able to withstand with minimum impact.
The newer people are to leathercrafting the more important warnings are... it does not take many messed up projects to take the wind out of a new crafter... If someone is warned then it is their job to proceed with caution... or not.... but to fail to warn when there is a known risk is not fair to others.
I will post a longer answer to both your posts about this later...
but here is something for people to think about....and which influences my choice of actions in situations with variable physics at stake...
Hides are skin. When the skin of a cow is on the animal small amounts of oil are constantly being provided from underneath... the skin is not drenched with a very heavy oil once a year... like an application of Neatsfoot Oil would be... it gets oil which is expelled at the same rate it is bing added all year long. I believe that an application of a lighter oil ... like Lexol, Carnauba cream, lanolin ( in the form of neutral shoe polish) on a REGULAR basis most closely resembles what nature was providing to that skin while it was on the animal... and has the added advantage of minimizing the risk of the leather in its new configuration and use (belt,saddle,etc) imparting unwanted oil to other items like clothes in the local vicinity.
Concerning white leather... I hate that look also.... which is another reason I like to use the Carnauba cream/Fiebings medium brown antique/neutral shoe polish on my carved objects.... it gives it a warm brown look... is not a finish which is prone to rubbing off and the neutral shoe polish is also the long term preventative action which is repeated to keep lanolin available for the fibers...

later, Greg

#4 Tom Katzke

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Posted 13 October 2006 - 11:45 AM

The reason for the post was to correct misinformation on oil.

Other posts have left the impression it is bad stuff. It is not. Bruce has the experience to speak with authority on the subject. That is why he spoke up to correct the misinformation.

Good point about reading and trying out stuff to see how well it works. Some information has a solid background from generations of use. If oil was a bad product then the tanneries would not apply oils after tanning. I do not know if Neets Foot Oil is part of a universal formula. I do now that Cod Liver Oil was used in the past and may be used by some tanneries still today. Having people give solid advice on how to use a product from experience will only make it easier for those with out the experience.

I learn from everyone on the lists. I just wish we could stick to saying what we do and use and not comment on other methods or products unless we have found out they just do not work.

Tom Katzke
Central Oregon





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