walter roth

Tools Of A Swiss Sattler

371 posts in this topic

So sorry, I did not got an alarm for new post...:unsure:

But I already talk with you in private, Walter ;)

So Walter: Was the cave diving near Rocamadour? May be The St Sauver résurgence... I have been here few years ago and this summer, nice place! And Cabouy close to it is nice too.

 

 

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So, Trox:

I've seen something like the Dumay logo on a half moon knife, someone was asking about it on an another forum, here are 2 pics, you can see how the deer is walking on it, not jumping as on yours, wich make it look more "Blanchard" style, so strange, but they may change the deer to look Blanchard on purpose, like a false one :wacko:

 

Couteau Cylène (1).jpg

Couteau Cylène (2).jpg

 

Don't confuse it with the "Dumas Aine 32" wich is from a knifemaker from Thiers (french city of knives), apparently around 1950, none other tools ever seen than the half moon ...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/XL-Antique-DUMAS-AINE-32-France-French-Saddlers-Leather-Cutting-Head-Knife/291873763245?_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D39850%26meid%3D5062fcf0de164a35a271f56a64178e35%26pid%3D100011%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26sd%3D361717303814

Dumas Aine 32 couteau à pied (1).jpg

Dumas Aine 32 couteau à pied (2).jpg

Dumas Aine 32 couteau à pied (3).jpg

Edited by Nox

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Trox: Funny, the first "compas de bourrelier" circle/washer cutters with deer handle looks like a Blanchard, totaly!

But here are some "Portrait" logo, so you can compare if it's the same horse with a saddle on it, + a "rembourroir" (to do the flocking, what's the name in english?) +  a "couteau mécanique" (plough gauge) from Portrait.

It could be a german manufacture too, wich was using a horse (pferd) as a logo (stamp), I've seen some tools like that on eBay Germany......  But there is no letters stamped, only the horse from what I remember, so it'll be difficult to guess the name... If I find something about it, I'll let you know.

 

Portrait  rembourroir (1).jpg

Portrait  rembourroir (2).jpg

Portrait marquage (1).jpg

Portrait marquage (2).jpg

Portrait couteau mécanique (1).jpg

Edited by Nox

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Trox (again) ;)

The "serpette" with SNCF is the second one I have seen... Mr Montagne told me something about this stamp, it may by a Blanchard did especially for the french train company SNCF, there is none other stamp manufacture on them. I don't know if it's true... Why not. The "B" is probaly the first letter of the owner's family name? Or first name?

Here is a third one for 30€:

https://www.leboncoin.fr/collection/854144040.htm

Do you want me to buy it for you? ;)

 

About Ullathorne, I got some pics if you want them by mail.

http://www.forum-outils-anciens.com/t10840-Extraits-du-catalogue-Ullathorne.htm?q=ullathorne

From what I read on the cover, It's the same than in London "Ullathorne from London / Paris address"

 

See you, do not hesitate to ask and to contact me by PM because I'm not getting all alerts here and I completly forgot to look at this post... Sorry folks...

Catalogue Ullathorne (2).jpg

Edited by Nox

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Its like the french invasion around here the last couple of days...Excusez mon francais pauvres....... Bienvenue, verser une tasse de cafe et tirer une chaise.


 

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10 hours ago, TinkerTailor said:

Its like the french invasion around here the last couple of days...Excusez mon francais pauvres....... Bienvenue, verser une tasse de cafe et tirer une chaise.



 

I'm making the coffee :lol::lol:  So there is 2 fenchies, 1 swiss, 1 norwegian, 1 canadian (I'd love to go around Vancouver! My stepbrother lives in Montréal now, but he was in Vancouver few years ago), 1 aussie (Australian), 1 danish, 1 german, 1 american...... and more....wow!

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I love dipping into this thread.   The tools are just so lovely, and if I'm honest, I have more than a pinch of envy going on here.

I have a couple of old (and very worn) tools that I use every day, and the quality of the manufacture shines through.   It's that solid feel that they have, even when worn, and a bit pitted.

I'm just going back to drool over a few more pictures now............

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yeah ... and a scottish now! :) Welcome!  I have been in north west Scotland last year, amazing landscape, i just won't leave it, I took amazing pictures and named my 2015 rescue cat "Scotty" (because is red of course!) dedicated to your beautiful contry. I'm also a big fan of Outlander movie and book (and Jamie Fraser because I'm a romantic girl). :wub:

Ok, back to tools stories...;)

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Don't know how I managed to post twice, but heyho.    

Northwest Scotland is certainly jaw dropping in its beuty (IMHO, the rest is wonderful too.:-)).

sadly, I never find such wonderful tools anywhere, or at least at an affordable price.

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I also have just purchased a Plough Gauge with the Bird on it …..it looks like a Dove that is just lifting off the ground in flight…. the letters are H F joined together.  I don't have the knife for it but it is in beautiful 

condition, there is NO movement on the horizontal roller, the best condition gauge I have…..but no knife.

I have a Bost Freres Catalogue as well… I will have to copy or photograph it & put it on the Net.

 

Regards Alan

Image.jpg

Image 2.jpg

Image 3.jpg

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@Alan RUNDELL beautiful tool. I don't know the trade HF. Maybe it can help to know where do you buy it : France, Germany ... ? It is interesting to see the piece that slides on the measure is a "one-piece-solid-brass".

I would love to see your Bost Frères catalog. I will wait for your scans ;-)

Edited by Dams

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G'day Dams,

I  bought the tool in Germany, I would like to know where the knife/blade is but the seller had no idea.

Alan

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It's the same marking on a tool that @Trox showed from his tools lot from a Norwegian saddlery.

I'm completely convinced that it's of German origin, as I've seen a couple of things from Germany carrying that mark.

However I don't know the name of the manufacturer or the name of the shop that sold it. Apparently private label manufacturing was pretty common in Germany meaning the manufacturer didn't put his stamp on it, but instead added the name/logo of the shop that sold it.

 

Except for an almost complete set of antique German round punches, my recent tool purchases have almost all been new and Chinese and South Korean. I must admit I'm pretty surprised by the tools that they're able to make. Some have really surpassed my expectations. I think we'll be seeing some terrific tools from China/South Korean, once they start fully understanding leather tools and the use of them.

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Hi Allan, I see you have found a plough with the same phoenix bird stamp as on my round knifes. I always suspect them to be of German orgin, I also hav another knife (a cornette or French pattern knife) with the same handle material and made exactly the same way. That has only the inscription "Gesmiedet" which is German for forged. There was also a unmarked plough in the same tool lot as the round knifes, that look exactly like yours (pic). Apart from some changed out parts: The steel guide between the ruler and the material guide, who protects the ruler from screw markings among other tings. I put that piece in my self along with the home made locking thumb screw (I will make another one like yours later) Then the knife is of another German brand (Langenhans, I believe). When you look on the details on it, it looks exactly like yours. I always thought it to be German. It was also very common to buy German tools here before, still is when it's awailable. Other stuff in the lot was of German orgin too.  I never seen a bigger collection of plougs than yours Allan, do you collect other leather tools as well.

There was also a newer Blanchard 20 cm plough in the same tool lot, in very good condition. Together with half a dusin more or less used up Blanchard plough gauge knifes (no Vergez only old stock Blanchard). A good plough will survive at least ten knifes and the Blanchard has always been there to deliver spare knifes. Since most of the other European plougs are copies of theirs (part from the UK ones) Blanchard knifes could be used in most of them. I'm sure thats the reason for your missing knife. I'm not sure but I can imagine that many European tool makers that copied Blanchards tools where careful to do so after the big "copycat" trial between the house of Blanchard and Mayer Flamery. It ended in favor of the house of Blanchard. Perhaps that's the reason there was some brands that only made a few tools like that, I'm only guessing here :)

Nox, If I have not told you before, thank you very much for your post and pictures. It been of big help and is very interesting reading, for sure.

20170207_030447-1.jpg

20170207_033831-1.jpg

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Thank you for the interest Simon & Trox.  It will be very interesting if a plough gauge knife (with the bird on it)  ever comes up for sale on eBay everyone will want it.

I have never seen a round knife before with the bird on it Trox I am very envious, that was a good purchase.

The problem with all these old tools is that they outlast there original users, it is good to see all the interest and information being gathered for the next generation of leather workers.

I do collect other leather tools Trox, I have a few hammers & round knives I did manage to buy about 10 T Dixon (Thomas) leather tools recently apparently he was the father of Joseph Dixon,correct me if I am wrong, they are very old and a lot smaller that other leather tools but it is an expensive hobby, especially if you live in Australia with the cost of postage.

I to have often wondered if factories like Blanchard or Rosler made clean skin (Unmarked) tools for other sellers to stamp there logo on before sale. I know that happened with wood working

machines. The quality of that (bird) plough gauge is excellent & yes it appears to be the same as your Blanchard tool.

I was lucky to get the Bost Freres Catalogue…..found it in Greece of all places. Does anyone know who bought the PORTRAIT pricking wheel that was for sale on eBay….sold for 175 Euros?

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Hi Allan, I do not think there will be competition over such knife. It would be nice to get my plough all original, but mine is unmarked and have replaced parts already. The gradings/scale on ruler is also pretty worn out, perhaps I will get in good working condition and pass it on to others. I bought a good portion of tool to a good price and got a portion of Norwegian saddler history with it. You cannot find much information about that now a days. I know we had a unique way of making horse harness here in Norway and you can tell a lot about a craft man studying his tools. I have also been promised copies of working drawing on all from chairs to saddles from the same old company.  I look forward to that and I will do my best secure that history for further generations. You are right about the German tool makers, they often made such clean skin tools, stamped them with their customers brands for further sales. I have not heard the same about the French, I think they mostly used their own brands marks. However, in the older days there where tool makers in every back yards making tools for other suppliers.  I belive my plough is made by the same tool makers as yours, a possible German maker with the phoenix bird brand. I have not bought any tools on Ebay for a long time, and yes I too know how it is to live far away with large shipping expences; I buy a lot from the USA. We talk later.

Tor 

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Posted (edited)

This phoenix looks like an eagle  (like the one from the third reich) and the HF looks like the cross :wacko: ... Very German!

Edited by Nox

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Hello Nox... and colleagues......
-
Yes, this Saint-Sauveur I dived.
She go down, but the small lake is beityfull
-
I Dive the Emergence-de-Ressel, the Font-del-Truffe, the La-Finou, and other Caves....
-------------------------------------------------------
-
By the way...
The Eagle...... from Plough-Gouge
One often finds Sattler tools with the so-called ....."WaA" Stamp.
He looks so...
The Eagle stands for Wehrmacht acceptance and the Number for the inspection Officer. (Quality control)
-
-
Wenn the Eagle is slightly larger and holds the "Hackenkreutz" ( in Englisch = Hook-Cross or Swastika ??? ) in the Ring in his Clutches, so that is the German Imperial holding stamp.
So the Ownership of the German Empire.
It is everywhere where space was always both.
The tool companies have worked also for the "Wehrmacht" and were subject to a strict quality control.
 
Greetings
 
Walter

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Thank you for that information Walter, very much appreciated.

Regards

Alan

IMG_2696.JPG

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G'day all,

This is another one for the collection..... a "Buck & Hickman" made in England but I am told they went out of production some years ago.

Does anybody have any information on this Plough Gauge please?

IMG_2740.jpg

IMG_2741.jpg

IMG_2746.JPG

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