onathread

Cobra Class 26 machine

Recommended Posts

On 3/1/2017 at 4:35 PM, Wizcrafts said:

I heard from Cobra Steve about the new Class 26 machine. He told me that it sews from 3 ounces up to 3/8 inch, uses standard walking foot System 135x16 and 135x17 needles, sizes 18 - 24, has an extra large hook that takes Juki LU (double capacity) bobbins and can handle up to #277 thread on top, with #207 in the bobbin. It also uses standard Singer 111 type walking feet.

That's all I know at this time. I hope this helps.

Thank you for this info, Wizcraft and Steve. This above is the correct info on the Cobra then? It does not have the ability to sew up to 5/8”? I’m assuming at this point that was a typo or some other error. I’m expecting to purchase a machine in the next two weeks or so.   In trying to compare the Techsew 2750, the Cowboy CB341, and the Cobra 26, I expected the same capabilities but either there is some difference, or there is misleading or incorrect information out there.  There is a lot of knowledge on this forum and I appreciate all of you. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Ceejay said:

Thank you for this info, Wizcraft and Steve. This above is the correct info on the Cobra then? It does not have the ability to sew up to 5/8”? I’m assuming at this point that was a typo or some other error. I’m expecting to purchase a machine in the next two weeks or so.   In trying to compare the Techsew 2750, the Cowboy CB341, and the Cobra 26, I expected the same capabilities but either there is some difference, or there is misleading or incorrect information out there.  There is a lot of knowledge on this forum and I appreciate all of you. 

You are confusing the maximum foot "lift" with the actual sewing capacity. With walking foot machines you lose between 1/8 to 1/4 inch of capacity under the raised feet. This is because the feet have to alternate up and down to move the material. So, when a manufacturer says that the feet lift 1/2 or 5/8 inch, they do, but only to insert and remove tall objects on the work. Once the work is secured under the lowered feet, it must not exceed 3/8 inch. The top to bottom stroke of a System 135x16 needle is insufficient to negotiate anything thicker.

If you buy a Model 26, have the seller sew a test strip of a 3/8 inch stack of veg-tan with the thickest thread it can properly tension and pull the knots up between the layers. Or, ask them to sew the thickest stack that can be sewn with #277 thread on top and 207 in the bobbin.. You may find it to be less than 3/8 inch.

#277 thread requires a lot more upper spring tension to pull the knots up into veg-tan leather than thinner threads. That's why the tension springs on the 441 clones are about twice the thickness as springs on upholstery class machines, which are already heavier than the beehive springs on garment sewing machines.

Structurally, there is no benefit to using heavier thread on top because the thinner bobbin thread will be the first to give under stress.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Ceejay said:

Thank you for this info, Wizcraft and Steve. This above is the correct info on the Cobra then? It does not have the ability to sew up to 5/8”? I’m assuming at this point that was a typo or some other error. I’m expecting to purchase a machine in the next two weeks or so.   In trying to compare the Techsew 2750, the Cowboy CB341, and the Cobra 26, I expected the same capabilities but either there is some difference, or there is misleading or incorrect information out there.  There is a lot of knowledge on this forum and I appreciate all of you. 

All of these machines are clones based on the Juki LS-341 machine. (which is a pretty great machine) They can generally handle up to 138 thread, 207 possibly with some tweaking. The foot lift is 16mm (5/8") and they sew up to 3/8". That's it. The needle stroke pretty much maxes out here. If you read specs past that, they are blowing smoke.

Aside from all this, pick the vendor you feel most comfortable with and read up on each vendor as much as you can. These are all clone machines produced in China with slightly different paint and table stands. What makes each of these machines good (or bad)  is how the vendor assembles and tunes the machine prior to shipment.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Ceejay said:

Thank you for this info, Wizcraft and Steve. This above is the correct info on the Cobra then? It does not have the ability to sew up to 5/8”? I’m assuming at this point that was a typo or some other error. I’m expecting to purchase a machine in the next two weeks or so.   In trying to compare the Techsew 2750, the Cowboy CB341, and the Cobra 26, I expected the same capabilities but either there is some difference, or there is misleading or incorrect information out there.  There is a lot of knowledge on this forum and I appreciate all of you. 

Machines that are capable of sewing 5/8 inch of leather, with a regular closed eye needle, use system 794 (aka: 7x4) needles, which are at least an inch longer than System 135x16 walking foot machine needles. They are typified by the Cowboy CB4500, Cobra Class 4 and Techsew 5100 machines. They have massive pressure and tension springs, cranks and take-up arms. These machines don't do as well with thin needles and thread, or thin, floppy leather or cloth. Their design specs call for thread sizes 138 through 415, using needle sizes 160 through 230. The needles are the size of roofing nails.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/10/2018 at 2:07 PM, Wizcrafts said:

Structurally, there is no benefit to using heavier thread on top because the thinner bobbin thread will be the first to give under stress.

THIS.  Exactly.   Especially those folks sewing holsters with 277 on top and 138 on the bottom.  What's the point?!  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, SolarLeatherMachines said:

THIS.  Exactly.   Especially those folks sewing holsters with 277 on top and 138 on the bottom.  What's the point?!  

I'm not opposed to the point y'all are making but I'm a little curious and ignorant...

How much of a role does the contact cement play into say a pancake "unzipping"?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, bikermutt07 said:

I'm not opposed to the point y'all are making but I'm a little curious and ignorant...

How much of a role does the contact cement play into say a pancake "unzipping"?

Glue is for holding pieces aligned for sewing and for holding lining layers in place. SOP is to glue the flesh sides together. The flesh sides will come loose and begin to separate under sufficient pull.

When I first got into making holsters I sewed them together using left twist, 6 cord, Barbour's Irish linen thread run through liquid wax. The sewing machine was a Union Lockstitch needle and awl harness stitcher that weighed 250 pounds (head) and which sold for about $6,000. You guys have no idea how good we have it nowadays to have access to harness sewing machines that almost anybody can learn to operate in one day, that sew dry thread and can be bought for under $3,000 brand new.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

Glue is for holding pieces aligned for sewing and for holding lining layers in place. SOP is to glue the flesh sides together. The flesh sides will come loose and begin to separate under sufficient pull.

When I first got into making holsters I sewed them together using left twist, 6 cord, Barbour's Irish linen thread run through liquid wax. The sewing machine was a Union Lockstitch needle and awl harness stitcher that weighed 250 pounds (head) and which sold for about $6,000. You guys have no idea how good we have it nowadays to have access to harness sewing machines that almost anybody can learn to operate in one day, that sew dry thread and can be bought for under $3,000 brand new.

Thanks @Wizcrafts, and I am appreciative about the clone boom. I have seen you fellas mention that before. 

Did you change your handle?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, bikermutt07 said:

@Wizcrafts

Did you change your handle?

No, it's same user name/alias since I joined the forum. Why do you ask that?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So when the website  lists the range for thread sizes as 69 to 210 for Thor 1341, and the threads sizes for Cowboy CB341 is listed as 33 to 138, is it just the way each company sets up their machines? Sorry, I know it must get irritating to explain the same thing numerous times and ways. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just purchased the class 26 and find leather thinner than 6oz. very difficult to sew. The presser feet do not hold thinner leather and it wants to move around while sewing. The feed dog is adjusted to it’s highest position. I’m certsin there is another adjustment needed, but I can’t figure it out. Any help is appreciated. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Ceejay said:

So when the website  lists the range for thread sizes as 69 to 210 for Thor 1341, and the threads sizes for Cowboy CB341 is listed as 33 to 138, is it just the way each company sets up their machines? Sorry, I know it must get irritating to explain the same thing numerous times and ways. 

Yes, that pretty much summarizes the situation. For instance, I ordered a post machine that can sew with #69 through #207 thread. My machine arrived threaded and sewn off with #207 thread, top and bottom. Normally, that machine would max out with #138 thread. The dealer fine tuned the hook and timing to meet my requirements.

It is safer to market a walking foot machine with a #138 upper limit and let the dealers adjust them for more or less capacity.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you Wizcrafts.  My head is spinning over all the info and comparing specs and all.  Going to try to see the Cowboy and the Thor in person in a couple weeks, but I’m not sure that will really clarify anything for me. But I will choose one then. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Ceejay said:

Thank you Wizcrafts.  My head is spinning over all the info and comparing specs and all.  Going to try to see the Cowboy and the Thor in person in a couple weeks, but I’m not sure that will really clarify anything for me. But I will choose one then. 

 

Try to learn about the ranges of thicknesses, densities and thread sizes that different types of sewing machines can "normally" handle. There are always exceptions that knowledgeable individuals can dial in. Industrial sewing machines are purpose built with specific types of sewing and material and thread handling capabilities designed in from the start.

Leathercrafters can usually (but not always) ignore most of the tailoring, embroidering and specialty machines and concentrate on walking foot machines of varying capabilities. These are usually classified according to the type of work they are built to handle without breaking down. Upholstery class machines can typically sew from about 1/16 up to 3/8 of an inch. Some can't quite sew that thickness. Most are able to properly tension up to #138 bonded (nylon/polyester) thread. This thread has a breaking strength of 22 pounds. In order to sew efficiently with thicker thread and/or thicker/denser leather requires a much stronger mechanism. That is why many of us buy big harness stitchers like the Cobra Class 4, Cowboy CB4500, Techsew 5100, Artisan and Adler super duty machines and even the venerable Juki TSC-441.

Know that as much as an upholstery grade machine has difficulty sewing thick material with heavy thread, a harness stitcher has an equal and opposite problem sewing thin material with thin thread. Big machines can be dumbed down, as I have blogged about on my profile, but this is time consuming and not as efficient as having a less heavy duty machine already setup to sew things below the sweet spot of the bigger machine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/14/2018 at 11:18 AM, Wizcrafts said:

No, it's same user name/alias since I joined the forum. Why do you ask that?

I thought it used to be The Wiz, my bad.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/15/2018 at 12:39 AM, Wizcrafts said:

 

Try to learn about the ranges of thicknesses, densities and thread sizes that different types of sewing machines can "normally" handle. There are always exceptions that knowledgeable individuals can dial in. Industrial sewing machines are purpose built with specific types of sewing and material and thread handling capabilities designed in from the start.

Leathercrafters can usually (but not always) ignore most of the tailoring, embroidering and specialty machines and concentrate on walking foot machines of varying capabilities. These are usually classified according to the type of work they are built to handle without breaking down. Upholstery class machines can typically sew from about 1/16 up to 3/8 of an inch. Some can't quite sew that thickness. Most are able to properly tension up to #138 bonded (nylon/polyester) thread. This thread has a breaking strength of 22 pounds. In order to sew efficiently with thicker thread and/or thicker/denser leather requires a much stronger mechanism. That is why many of us buy big harness stitchers like the Cobra Class 4, Cowboy CB4500, Techsew 5100, Artisan and Adler super duty machines and even the venerable Juki TSC-441.

Know that as much as an upholstery grade machine has difficulty sewing thick material with heavy thread, a harness stitcher has an equal and opposite problem sewing thin material with thin thread. Big machines can be dumbed down, as I have blogged about on my profile, but this is time consuming and not as efficient as having a less heavy duty machine already setup to sew things below the sweet spot of the bigger machine.

Thank you for the additional information, Wizcrafts.  I got an opportunity to see a Cobra 26 in person.Monday night. It was set up with 138 thread I think, and a fairly long stitch. Quite different from the domestic machines I’m used to. Looking forward to exploring this, and finding a machine that will suit my needs.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now