johnggrg

Medieval Helmet pattern help

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johnggrg   

I had an idea about making some different types of medieval helmets out of leather. Tried to find a place that sold printed patterns for them with no luck at all. Has anyone by chance ever made one?  There are a couple places that have free patterns for making them out of steal but there just rough  drawings. I had one in mind to start with if I can get the picture to load got pic from internet. If someone wants to make a printed pattern for this I would buy it from them including shipping. Please let me know. John   P.S  Guess the picture loaded cool!

s-l5002.jpg

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480volt   

Since, presumably, this is to fit your own head, you would likely have to adjust any template that you find. It looks like it would be relatively straightforward to construct a pattern based on cardboard and duct tape (somebody here once referred to this as CAD: Cardboard Aided Design)  My pattern making experience is not in leatherwork, but in years of installing vinyl sheet goods, which requires you to understand how to make flat, brittle surfaces do three-dimensional things. That helmet is composed of flat surfaces curved in one plane, maybe some wet molding needed for a few features.

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johnggrg   

It does seem straight forward but... My head is 23 in around. Then there would be a suspension system you would have add in plus if there were any pad behind the sweat band. Just not sure how to add what I would need to get the right measurement for the bottom of the band. Clearly the bottom is smaller then the top. So that was why I asked if anyone had made one before. They might know how or what to add in that is needed. So any help would be great. Thank you. John

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johnggrg   

This  would all be easy to make if I knew how much bigger then my head size I have to make it for pad and suspension system. Like I said my head is 23 in around. So...anyone know how much I add to the head size also the suspension system Not sure how that is made either. Any helmets I can make would only be for looks anyway but do want to know how one sizes them up when making a pattern. Anyone know? John

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fredk   

1. Tandy does a pattern for a Great helm. With care it can be adjusted to make the face pot helm above,  https://www.leathercraftlibrary.com/p-1877-crusader-helmet-pattern.aspx?

2.  History lesson;

A;  Helm padding was attached to the wearers arming cap or maille coif. It was no less than 2 inches [5 cm] thick. Modern repro are about 3/4 inch [2 cm] thick. The padding was a linen tube stuffed with sheeps wool and/or straw. This was tied or sewn to the cap or coife at about upper brow level

B. The suspension system in medieval times was as used now; a strip of leather sewn or riveted round the inside of the helm, at about high brow level. Then six/eight/ten/twelve straps of leather or heavy cord attached to this crossed from one side, thru the centre to the other side. 3 of these gives 6, 4 gives 8 etcetera. Sometimes these straps, or a few of them at right angles went through a centre leather disc. On a WW2 helmet I have adjustment of the cords is just by untying a couple of cords, retying at a different length and pushing the central disc back into the centre. On a medieval helm I inspected it looked like there was no adjustment provsion. Possibly it was made exactly for one head or adjustment was through the amount of padding at the top of the head. The chin strap attaches to the inner leather strap as well. Adjustment of the strapping not only adjusts how high or low the helm sits on the head but it can bias the sit to front or rear or to either side.

3. Having worn different styles of medieval helm in anger I would suggest that you have an absolute minimum of 1.5 inches padding at the sides and rear and 2.5 inches minimum at the front. You will not be wearing a leather helm to fight in so its not for protection, but the padding keeps the helm away from your ears and nose.  You could attach the padding to the inner support strap running around the inside. Make it thick and it'll crush down to a tight supportive fit.

4. If your head circumference is 58.4cm then it has an average of 9.3 cm radius; add 4cm average for padding = 13.3 r = 83.5cm [32.9 inches] circumference. Note; the human head is not a perfect circle. Depending on your genetic origins in might be an egg shape, flatish at the rear, flatish at the front, etcetera

5. For hat making I use the polystyrene heads hairdressers use for wigs. Available in most normal sizes, both male and female. If you shop around you can get them for less than $5 and are really useful

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johnggrg   
22 hours ago, fredk said:

1. Tandy does a pattern for a Great helm. With care it can be adjusted to make the face pot helm above,  https://www.leathercraftlibrary.com/p-1877-crusader-helmet-pattern.aspx?

2.  History lesson;

A;  Helm padding was attached to the wearers arming cap or maille coif. It was no less than 2 inches [5 cm] thick. Modern repro are about 3/4 inch [2 cm] thick. The padding was a linen tube stuffed with sheeps wool and/or straw. This was tied or sewn to the cap or coife at about upper brow level

B. The suspension system in medieval times was as used now; a strip of leather sewn or riveted round the inside of the helm, at about high brow level. Then six/eight/ten/twelve straps of leather or heavy cord attached to this crossed from one side, thru the centre to the other side. 3 of these gives 6, 4 gives 8 etcetera. Sometimes these straps, or a few of them at right angles went through a centre leather disc. On a WW2 helmet I have adjustment of the cords is just by untying a couple of cords, retying at a different length and pushing the central disc back into the centre. On a medieval helm I inspected it looked like there was no adjustment provsion. Possibly it was made exactly for one head or adjustment was through the amount of padding at the top of the head. The chin strap attaches to the inner leather strap as well. Adjustment of the strapping not only adjusts how high or low the helm sits on the head but it can bias the sit to front or rear or to either side.

3. Having worn different styles of medieval helm in anger I would suggest that you have an absolute minimum of 1.5 inches padding at the sides and rear and 2.5 inches minimum at the front. You will not be wearing a leather helm to fight in so its not for protection, but the padding keeps the helm away from your ears and nose.  You could attach the padding to the inner support strap running around the inside. Make it thick and it'll crush down to a tight supportive fit.

4. If your head circumference is 58.4cm then it has an average of 9.3 cm radius; add 4cm average for padding = 13.3 r = 83.5cm [32.9 inches] circumference. Note; the human head is not a perfect circle. Depending on your genetic origins in might be an egg shape, flatish at the rear, flatish at the front, etcetera

5. For hat making I use the polystyrene heads hairdressers use for wigs. Available in most normal sizes, both male and female. If you shop around you can get them for less than $5 and are really useful

fredk thank you for the reply. So with padding and suspension allowances the bottom  circumference should be 32.9 inches?  Wow didn't think it would be that big. I would like to say I thought it would make for some interesting leather projects. I was thinking if I can get the patterns I would make a few different styles of medieval helmets all normal size and wearable if wanted but mostly for display. Now of course a leather helmet would not be what a knight would want to wear in battle but I did want to make them the same way as if they were made of steel. And if it all works out I will have a nice display of medieval helmets made of leather and as accurate as possible. So I understand this right. The hemet itself will only have the suspension system in it? John

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fredk   

Yes, each helm/helmet needs its own suspension inside.

You could make yourself an 'arming cap' with the padding attached to it. Then each helm won't need the padding inside

A basic  'arming cap' is dead easy to make up in leather. Just three pieces of leather sewn together.

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johnggrg   

Sorry forgot  to add. The Tandy Great helmet pattern. Is a costume helmet. Not made the way a real would be. Yes I would make them with just there suspension  systems in them. I really would like some help with making this helmet I should a picture of. One the top of the helmet is wider then the bottom. That I can't seem to draw up right. Plus not knowing what the bottom circumference should be. John

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fredk   

The helmet in the above photo may or may not have actually existed. Its more of a fantasy medieval helmet. I have never seen one like it in any of my research books.

This leads to; make yours like it but don't slavishly copy it. Just do the sides staight down*, but bring it down past your ears.

As for the Tandy one; Helms/Helmets were made in hundred of ways, it depended on the skill of the armourer and the blacksmith who had to mend it. I've seen helms made by riveting pieces together, joining by hammer welding and even the remains of a Great Helm which had been cast in one piece

* if you really want to do a tapered side; think of a hot-cup holder - its long sides are curved so that when the ends are joined the top and bottom long sides are parallel. Take piece of card, draw a line, a curved line. Make this central line the length I told you, make the top line about 4 inches away about 1.5 inches longer, make the bottom line about 4 inches away 1 inch less. Cut this strip out of thin card. You need to cut it so it curves. Try this against your head and by trial-and-error you'll find the right curve

 

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johnggrg   

I did find one place that does sell a downloadable helmet pattern. armortemplates.com. This is a pattern for making a steel helmet not a leather one. They call it a wraith helmet but it can be made in alot of different ways. Now it has no info on making any type of suspension system in it. So I came up with my own way. Started by using a piece of 8-9 oz leather  1 1/2 wide strap on the inside of helmet. Then  put two rows of stitches at the bottom edge. One row to sew to helmet the other for the suspension system. Now what I used was the pattern for making the helmet body and cut two pieces of suede leather.Now that should be sewed to the bottom row of stitches. So I went from the top and and lined the suede up with the lower row and sewed it on. ended up over lapping by 3 stitch holes on either end. now I rolled the leather down over the bottom edge and over where I stitched it. Then it will get pushed up inside to make the suspension. When that is done and it's rolled under the top row of stitches are exposed so you can stitch it in. Now I threw this together not cairing how it came out. Just wanted to see if I could do it or not. So instead of back grounding the leather I hit it with a ball pin hammer.  Now I did have a hard time trying to dish the sides so maybe the next one will come out better. 

20170916_183845.jpeg

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johnggrg   

More pictures as soon as I can get them to load in here.

Here is the inside. This is all 8-9 oz leather.

20170917_161808.jpeg

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johnggrg   

here is the suspension system after rolling it down and up inside

20170919_123811.jpeg

Here you can see how the second row of stitches line up

20170919_150121.jpeg

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johnggrg   

Here is the outside of the helmet with a lower bottom piece.

20170917_161751.jpeg

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johnggrg   

Here you can see the hammering done to the leather. 

20170919_1500045.jpeg

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johnggrg   

Here you can see stitching the bottom part on. I didn't finish the front edge cause I will have to trim that a little and won't be hard to touch up after. 

20170921_112303.jpeg

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johnggrg   

Here you can see how the stitches had to over lap the rolled suede in a hex pattern on the inside. If I would have started the stitches in the other direction or from the other side I would have hade the hex on the outside and the straight part of the stitch on the inside. But like I said trial and error. But honestly it doesn't get in the way at all and when you get past the bottom part being stitched on where the face begins it's a normal stitch and will not go over the edge of the suede.  Now I plan on putting a 1 1/2 inch strap around the helmet covering the stitch line down the center and around the helmet where the bottom is sewed on and that or those will be riveted on so you won't see any of the stitches on the outside. Like I said this was a trial and error piece so next one will be the real one that I will make nicer. More pictures as I get it done. Finally figured out how to resize my pictures so I can upload them. Send from phone to email. John         P.S  I cut the corners off the suede and punched a hole in the ends for some lace.

20170921_112924.jpeg

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