neelsaddlery
-
Content Count
170 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Posts posted by neelsaddlery
-
-
The Juki servo positioning motor costs over $1,000. All that you need is a good standard servo which you can find for a fraction of Juki's price through one of the machine companies here... Artisan, Neels Saddlery, Cobra etc.
If you need a servo motor we have them any time you are ready. Our price is $125.00, plus shipping. The servo motors we use have no mechanical brake. They use an electronic brake and they seem to be the best ones we have seen so far. Extremely smooth -- Extremely quiet.
-
Thanks for the info CampbellRandall.What would some examples of awl machines be?
I might be able to help you with this one. Some needle and awl stitching machines that have been made over the years are as follows:
1. Campbell Harness Stitcher
2. Randall Harness Stitcher
3. Landis #3
4. Landis #16
5. Randall Union Lockstitch
6. I also think the Cyclone was a needle and awl machine.
7. Champion narrow and wide throat machines
That is all I can think of right now.
-
What was the new electric machine that you bought?
-
Steve, glad you brought that up. I hadn't even considered the open/closed situation. I'll certainly have to work very carefully. I think the zipper open stiching might be what I do so I'll be pretty careful about the spacing.Sam, you're crazy
Ryan, thanks for the thread and needle size. Which needle would be the way to go, fabric or leather? How do I determine which is the best to go with?
Thanks guys!
If you are dealing with a soft and thin leather, then I would say you would be OK going with a fabric point needle if you need to use the size 22. Remember that the smallest needle you can get in leather point for the machine is a size 23. If you are running a size 92 thread, then I would say go with the smallest needle you can get, which would be the 22. If you are using a size 138, then you can use the 23 in leather point.
I would also tighten up the bobbin tension a good bit, and really loosen up the top thread tension. These 441 machines have a very powerful thread tension mechansim on them, and so you really need to back it off when sewing thin/light leather. If not, then the machine will pull the knots to the top side of the leather.
Hope this is of some help to you.
-
I just wanted to thank everyone for their help. I ended up speaking with Artisan, Steve(Cobra), Ryan(Neels Saddlery) and Tim at Zack White Leather. I spent more time on this decision than I did on my last new truck. There were advantages to each machine and eveyone was super nice but the owner of the Juki 441 dropped his price again and I found a deal on shipping with a freight company. The machine was shipped from Oklahoma on Friday and was expected no later than July 6th. I got a suprise call this morning about 9:00am and was told it was on the dock. Picked it up today and had to make room for it as it was early. Finally got one of my building rearranged and unloaded it. The thing is a beast, I'd never seen one in person. I got it set up and had to try it out. I had some old strapping and sewed a couple layers of it no problem, I want to clean it up and make sure it is lubed real well before really trying it. The pulley has a drive ratio of about 8:1, I'd say. I looks like someone made it in a machine shop, so I'm not sure it it is stock or homemade. It is one speed, about 80 to 90 stitches per minute...slightly more than one stitcg per second. It also has a swing away arm that, I'm guessing helps hold the material. The machine looks like it has hardly been used at least compared to my Consew and Tacsew machines. I'll take some pics when I get a chance. I did get a sack full of needles, all one size, must be close to 100. Schmetz Nadlen 7x3 Nm230. I've got no clue about needle sizes for this machine, feel free to comment on the needles.I know I went against almost everyones advise, but I just didn't have the extra money in my "fishing account". Even with shipping, I'm still right at $1,000 less than a new machine. I'm sure I'll end up with a couple different feet for it, but so far I'm pretty happy. As far as working on the machine, I've got a Juki dealer about 100 miles from me, anything else I can probably make the parts in my machine shop.
Thanks,
Jamie
If the needles are strictly labeled 7X3, then they are most likely they are for fabric. For leather point needles, you need to look for the designation of 7X4, or 794. These numbers indicate that the needle was meant for leather sewing, and usually they have some letter indicator that talks about the point type, such as DIA, RTW,S, LR, etc.
If you bought that machine delivered for at or under $1600.00, then I would say you did just fine. The Juki 441 is a very good machine, and it will last you for the rest of your life.
If you ever need any parts for that machine, please let me know, as we stock all different styles of presser feet and accessories to fit it, as well as all different types of parts.
As we discussed on the phone when you called me, our Cowboy (Neel's Saddlery) 441 is a 100 percent exact same copy of the Juki 441, so all of our parts will fit it exactly. The other clones have some small differences in their parts and manufacture which means that some parts may not cross over exactly.
If you need any help with your machine, please le me know. I will be glad to help you in any way I can.
ENJOY!!!!!!!
-
That is a very inique machine you have there. I have not seen anything like that myself. Singer made so many specialty machines over the years it is mind boggling. You could have a 1 of a kind there, and it might belong in a museum!!!!! Or, it could be a boat anchor -- it is hard to tell!!!!
I would say the machine was deifinitely used in either the mocassin, hat, handbag, or other associated business.
If you plan to use it for one of these purposes, then I'd say keep it.
One thing to consider, however, is that the parts for older Singer specialty machines are rare as hen's teeth. If you do have one of the special variants that Singer made, it may be impossible to get parts for it.
Just something to consider for later down the road.
-
This is a question for all you sewing machine gurus......When stitching belts and other lined items, my stitches on top look good, but those in back look bad. I typically use 138/99 with a 14 needle or 99/69 with a 12 needle. I'm using a Artisan 797AB, but I have the same problem, to a lesser degree, with my Adler 205/370. The thread size doesn't seem to make much difference. The back side stitches don't pull up nice and tight like the top does. Some of the lining material I use is thin....2 oz....but is much firmer than the leather on top....I wondered if that was part of the problem. It seems like increasing tension doesn't help the stitches tighten up any. Do I need to use a larger needle to allow the stitch to pull into the leather?
I also have this problem when sewing the skived folded end of a belt where I'm transitioning from 10 oz leather to 5/6 oz leather. Everything looks good until I transition to the lighter leather. I have frequently noticed this on other peoples work as well. My goal is to make the stitches on the botton look as good as those on the top....am I asking too much or using the wrong set-up?
Suggestions?
Thanks,
Bob
If you are using a size 12 or 14 needle with a size 138/99 thread, the needle is way too small for the thread. If you go "by the book" with a 138 thread, you should use a size 22 needle. I would try a size 22 needle and see if you notice a difference. If the thread is coming up to the top side of the material after switching to the 22 needle, the you can switch to a 138 both top and bottom.
Hope this is of some help to you.
-
I would not use anything much smaller than a size 92 or 138 with the machine and a size a size 23 needle.
You can get a size 22 needle in fabric point for this machine, but 23 is the smallest you can get in leather point.
Kindest Regards,
Ryan O. Neel
Ciwboy Sewing Machines
Neel's Saddlery and Harness
-
Hello:
You'll want to ask him if it has a speed reducer installed on it. The speed redcuer is a pulley that mounts underneath the tabletop. It slows down the sewing speed of the machine. That is the only way it could go really slow.
If it is just a regular clutch motor with no speed reducer, then the machine could so pretty fast, in the 500-800 SPM range.
The reducer will slow it down to 100-200 SPM or so.
Kindest Regards,
Ryan O. Neel
Cowboy Sewing Machines
Neel's Saddlery and Harness
-
I do not think there is an auction at the harness maker's get together. But I could be wrong. Anybody else know if there is any auction at the get together?
Ryan O. Neel
Cowboy Sewing Machines
Neel's Saddlery and Harness
-
The feeding mechanism on it was the same as on the Classic/Number 9. It is a jump foot needle feed. Similar feeding mechanism as to what is on the Boss.
I saw them sew samples from 1/8" up to about 5/8" thick at the show.
Hope this is if some help to you.
Kindest Regards,
Ryan O. Neel
Cowboy Sewing Machines
Neel's Saddlery and Harness
-
Hello:
I saw them. They were basically a stripped down version of a regular jump foot needle feed machine. They have a rotary crank on the side of them. The handle motion is rotary and not up and down like the Tippmann Boss.
The machine did seem to stitch nice, but there was a hell of a swing on the rotary handle to get it to make enough power to sew.
I am not sure how good of a machine it is for the money. It seems to be awful plain. But one thing I will say is that it did stitch well at the show.
Kindest Regards,
Ryan O. Neel
Cowboy Sewing Machines
Neel's Saddlery and Harness
-
I went and had a great time. I bought some super nice leather machinery for super cheap. I overloaded my truck big-time! I think the bidders were asleep the first couple of hours! lol I bought about $8000 dollars worth of items for about 250 bucks. I really wish I would have taken a trailer. I have never seen these machines sell for so cheap. I pitty you Neel on at least one of your machines I saw sell. I could not believe how low it went. I would have bought it, but I only buy American made machinery. Still tired from the event. lolYou should have bought one. Told you they went cheap!!!! Oh well, I consider it my gift to the Weaver Auction and all who attended. It will be the first and last time I will ever let machines go for that low of a price. Should you feel pity for me, no. You should be happy that the folks that bought them got a great deal. My loss was their gain.
You should have bought some of the American made machines there. I saw at last three Union Lockstitch machines in excellent condition sell for $700.00 or less.
Or, how about those Champion wide throat machines that were reconditioned that went for pennies on the dollar.
The super low prices were not on China built machines alone.
Ryan O. Neel
Cowboy Sewing Machines
Neel's Saddlery and Harness
-
If you need parts for this 441, please let me know, as we stock TONS of parts for our clone versions of this machine. With our version of the 441, we enjoy 100 percent parts interchangeability between our machine and the original Juki 441. All of our parts will fit it no problem.
We also stock all of the parts that you will need to get it set up to sew leather, such as left and right toe feet, double toe harness feet, slotted needle plates, holster plates, and stirrup plates.
If you need help with adjutsments and so forth, give me a call and I will help you out in any way I can.
Kindest Regards,
Ryan O. Neel
Cowboy Sewing Machines
Neel's Saddlery and Harness
toll free: 1-866-507-8926
-
If you can buy that machine for $650.00, then I would buy it. An original Juki 321 in good sewing condition is well worth it, regardless if it has the stand, table, motor or not.
Used models of this machine will fetch at least $1250.00 from a dealer, if not more.
This is not a good machine for sewing heavy leather, but it works well for up to about 1/4" with no larger than a size 138 thread.
Original Juki price was well over $2000.00 new.
Ryan O. Neel
Cowboy Sewing Machines
Neel's Saddlery and Harness
-
Wow sounds like a good time to be had. Bad economy is only bad for those without money, if you have money you can make a killing.Where and when does this weaver thing go on at. I think it would be cool to try and make it to one of these events.
The Weaver Leather auction is at their corporate headquarters in Mount Hope, Ohio. It is about 50 miles west of Canton, Ohio. Canton is the home of the Pro Football Hall of Fame.
The auction is either in June or July of every year. It is usually the 3rd week of the month.
The big problem in times of economic downturn is the MOST people are strapped for cash. Only the relative minority have the funds available to take advantage of rip roarin' deals.
If you are one of the lucky few, consider yourself blessed.
Kindest Regards,
Ryan O. Neel
Cowboy Sewing Machines
Neel's Saddlery and Harness
-
Hello Folks:
Just got back from the 25th annual Weaver Leather auction. It was a buyer's market for sure. They had the widest selection of leather I have ever seen there, and after talking with some of the long timers at Weaver, I found out that this auction could very well have had the most leather at any auction Weaver held in the past.
Tons and tons of leather. Leather by the piece, by the roll, and by the pallet!!!! Some of the leather sold so low that Paul Weaver himself came across the loudspeaker to say that a particular lot of leather was actually being sold at below the tannery minimum bid!!! They sold it anyhow!!!!
I bought 6 sides of heavy russet Herman Oak harness leather for $65.00 a side!!!!!
Machinery sold for pennies on the dollar. I saw several good Union Lockstitch machines in perfect sewing order sell for under $900.00. I saw a good Juki 441 sell for $1200.00. I saw a like new Ferdco Pro 2000 bring $2200.00. I saw a like new Ferdco pro 440 bring $350.00.
I took 7 brand new machines to the auction, and let's just say I would have been better off donating them to charity!!!!! But I let them go anyhow, and made some lucky bidders happy. What the heck.
That is all part of the phenomenon that is the Weaver leather auction. Some years machines sell for for so much money that the consignors have to pinch themselves because they made so much money, and other years they are singin' the blues. This year was a great year for the buyers, and a terrible year for the sellers.
Weaver also seemed to be offering machines for insanely low prices on auction day. I think the economy is definitely affecting all machinery sales. It was evident in the prices at the auction, and also the prices on for the show specials that Weaver was offering.
The buyers that picked up some bargains at this auction definitely got their money's worth.
And that, my friends, is the rest of the story!!!!
Kindest Regards,
Ryan O. Neel
Neel's Saddlery and Harness
Cowboy Sewing Machines
-
Hmmm....Sounds a little too cheap to me. Those 441's hold their value. I'd be wary.Tim
Just got back from the Weaver Auction, and they sold a complete Juki 441 with stand, motor, table, and machine head for $1200.00. It was used, but appeared to be all there and in good working condition.
The Weaver auction this year was definitely a buyer's market.
Ryan O. Neel
Neel's Saddlery and Harness
Cowboy Sewing Machines
-
FredF:
Consew used to buy the machine that they called the 756 from Seiko. Now that the partnership between Seiko and Consew has dissolved, (it did about 5-8 years ago) they now source a machine they call the 756 R-2 from a supplier in China. The 756 R-2 is exactly the same as the Cowboy 441, Artisan Toro 4000, Cobra Class 4, and some others.
The presser feet for the Seiko built version of the machine (and if the machine you are looking at is 20 years old it most likely is a Seiko machine) will not interchange with any offered by Cowboy, Artisan, or Cobra. They are totally different.
I am certain you can still buy feet for the Seiko version, but the selection will be extremely small, and the number of people selling them will be even smaller.
In my personal opinion, you would be much better off to buy a Cowboy or Cobra machine. These machines come with all of the presser feet and needle plates you would ever need, and the price is $2695.00 with a lifetime warranty.
We both are offering a special attachment package that has a left toe foot, right toe foot, assorted needle plates, needles and thread.
Yes, it is more money, but you are buying a brand new machine, and that machine will come with a lifetime warranty.
Is this a shameless plug for Cowboy and Cobra machines? YES!!!!! But, in all seriousness, please take some time to consider your options very carefully, as in the end you could pay as much or even more for the Consew by the time you get the needle plates and presser feet you need to make it work on sewing leather. With the Cowboy and Cobra machines, you get all this stuff right out of the starting gate!!!!!
Kindest Regards,
Ryan O. Neel
Neel's Saddlery and Harness
Cowboy Sewing Machines
1-866-507-8926
-
Hello:
Please give m a call and I would be glad to help you with machine selection.
Kindest Regards,
Ryan O. Neel
Neel's Saddldery and Harness
Cowboy Sewing Machines
(330) 692-1418
-
Hello all:
A Consew 206 is a good machine. It should sew at least two layers of 8 ounce with up to a size 138 thread.
The main difference between a heavy machine and medium weight machine deals not only with the thickness it will sew, but the size of thread it can use. The Consew 206 can sew an easy 1/4" thick, but if you try to sew that same thickness with anything larger than a 138 thread with the Consew it is not going to happen!!!!!
Heavy stitchers cannot only sew heavier, but they can also use heavier threads. A size 138 thread is a starting size for a heavy weight machine. Heavy weight machines like our Cowboy Model 7441 will sew with 138, 207, 277, 345, 415, and even 554.
These heavier threads are like rope, and they are often seen used on horse tack, saddles, heavy dog collars, and the like.
The lighter weight threads like 138 are used for chaps, chinks, upholstery and things of this nature.
Hope this is of some help to you.
Kindest Regards,
Ryan O. Neel
Neel's Saddlery and Harness
Cowboy Sewing Machines
-
Hello All:
The Typical clone of the 441 is indeed produced by Typical in their own factory. Typical also has their own foundry, and while I cannot be assured that the casting is made there, I would say there is a better than average chance that Typical produces it.
Typical as a company is quite large. On the whole, they employ about 3000-5000 people, depending on workload. They have two divisions. Typical Wanping Machinery is the division responsible for the heavy duty machines. Located in Xian, China, they are a government owned enterprise.
In China, you find quite varied business arrangements. Some sewing machine companies have their own parts manufacturing plants, as well as casting and machining plants as well. Some only do final assembly and buy their parts and castings elsewhere. It depends on the size of the company and the resources they have available.
Because Typical is such a large enterprise, they do produce a lot of their own parts, as well as castings and final machining of those castings. I have visited their plants in Xian and they are quite impressive. Very large, very well organized, very clean.
Highlead also produces their own clone of the 441 machine. The only exception is that the bobbin winder for the Highlead is located on the top of the machine, as opposed to the front of the machine on the other 441 clones.
Highlead is a very known maker of sewing machines in China, and for years was the "king of the hill" when it came to producing top quality machines. However, those machines also carried with them a very high price tag. Yes, the quality was there, but in my mind the price was never worth the quality. Most folks will retail a Highlead for about $4000.00, sometimes more, and for $1000.00 more, you could buy a Juki 441 -- made in Japan.
Highlead has lost a big share of their market to the smaller privately owned enterprises that can produce excellent quality at a price close to half that of Highlead. At first, the quality of the smaller makers was not good at all, but over the years they have steadily improved. So much to the point that Artisan (and even myself for that matter) have went with these smaller makers as machine suppliers because we can buy machines for much less and also sell them for much less. A lower price means more sales and more sales means a higher profit at the end of the year.
Some other folks have also commented on Japanese hooks. This is just my opinion, but I feel that for the added costs, a Japanese made hook just is not worth it. Juki and Adler sell replacement hooks for their 441 and 205 class machines for somewhere around $400.00. You can buy a good Chinese made hook for $160.00. If the Chinese hook lasted half as long, then you'd still be getting a better deal!!!! And frankly I see no difference in stitch quality between a quality Chinese made hook and its Japanese counterpart. Longevity, maybe. Stitch quality, no.
Kindest Regards,
Ryan O. Neel
Neel's Saddlery and Harness
Cowboy Sewing Machines
-
Hello:
The trademark of "Mercury" was owned by a parent compnay named WMC Corporation. The bad news is, the went out of business about 8 years ago or so.
However, the machine you have is most like a walking foot machine based on the old Singer 111 design. You can look up on the internet what this machine looks like.
If it does not look very similar to the Singer, then look up a photo of the Tacsew T-111. This machine is a modern day knockoff of the old Singer 111.
Parts are still available for both machines. They are quite common.
Hope this is of some help to you.
Kindest Regards,
Ryan O. Neel
Neel's Saddlery and Harness
Cowboy Sewing Machines
(330) 692-1418
-
Hello All:
I believe the Singer 45K used the 214X2 needle system for leather. (also called 328 needle system). It uses a 214X1 for fabric. The Highlead mentioned earlier in this thread uses a 7X4 needle system for leather (also called a 794 needle system), or a 7X3 for farbric.
There is no difference in the length of the needle between 214X2 and 214X1, or 7X3 or 7X4. It is just a way of designating whether the point is leather or fabric point.
Hope this is of some help to you.
Kindest Regards,
Ryan O. Neel
Neel's Saddlery and Harness
Cowboy Sewing Machines
(330) 692-1418
non-leather sewing machine
in Leather Sewing Machines
Posted · Report reply
We offer a very nice walking foot machine for $795.00 complete with mobile stand with locking castor wheels, high quality plywood tabletop, variable speed DC servo motor, and machine head. The machine we offer is in the same class as the Brother 797, Artisan 797 AB, and some others.
Good machine for light and medium weight leathers.