dans79
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Posts posted by dans79
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keep in mind JJ needles are fairly cheap and made in china! In the past I've wondered if sizes #1 through #3 aren't just quality control binning, because you need meteorology equipment or a good loop to tell the difference. Not to mention i have some #3s that look bigger than #2s.
I've thought about picking up some System S+U needles that are made in Germany, as they have a more diverse size range. However they are 2.5 to 3 times more expensive than JJ needles, and seem much harder to find in the states.
Here is a photo I found showing the size range of System S+U needles.
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The eyelet inner and outer sizes are different. That effects how easy it is to get the needle and the thread immediate next to the needle through the leather.
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13 minutes ago, MtlBiker said:And then with 0.8 Tiger thread and a 001 John James harness needle, I found I really had to wiggle the first needle in the hole in order to slightly open it up so the other needle could get through. And then I also had to use a pair of pliers to pull the needle through on many/most of the holes.
Your using a larger needle than you need to, and that's making your life a little harder than it needs to be. 0.8mm will work fine with a #3 needle, and with a little finagling you can even get it to work with a #4.
with regards to the Sinabroks, they are wider at the tip than other french style irons if memory serves. French irons should by nature require a little more force as they are flat at the tip while diamonds form a point.
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2 hours ago, chuck123wapati said:i can get hammer heads by the buckets at garage sales seems like. To re-handle a head costs more than the cheapo china junk so people just don't do it anymore.
It can be worth it, but it needs to be like a 40+ year old hammer, preferably even older if you can find it. My brother has one of my grandfathers hammers from the 1920' or 30's, that is a real jem. Hard enough that it won't
mar, but soft enough that it won't chip.
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2 hours ago, dikman said:I've been toying with the idea of finding a (cheap) hammer and re-forging it to a wide/flat cobbler's hammer. I'm not sure how successful it would be, but it's an idea.
Personally I wouldn't risk it, unless you can get your hands on a hammer that you know is 30 to 40+ years old. If you have the tools for forging, you would probably be better off starting with a piece of bar stock of a known grade of steel. God knows what random cheap steel they use to make hammers now.
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7 hours ago, chuck123wapati said:i polish knives to that for about 250 bucks a pop. I'm just not ocd enough to polish a hammer lol.
It's a lot easier and faster to do on a hammer, as you don't have to worry about screwing up the edge like you do on a knife or chisel!
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On 5/10/2022 at 2:46 PM, MtlBiker said:Thanks Fred. It is indeed rough, but I'm going to first try what @chuck123wapati suggested. Hit some leather and see what it looks like. Have to wait until the end of the day and I go home though.
I'm very reluctant to send the hammer back.... do you remember a month or two ago when I posted about an Osborne edge creaser I'd received? That was so sharp it was cutting the leather instead of just creasing it. I eventually received a replacement from my dealer for it (Osborne replaced it for them) and the replacement was virtually just as bad. I've since moved to the knockoffs that are available for dirt cheap through Amazon and they are much MUCH better that the two from Osborne. I don't want to send the hammer back because I'd surely be labelled as a chronic complainer by the dealer. (That might not be wrong, as I think if you're paying for something it should be usable for the task it's designed for.)
This is why I haven't purchased anything from Osborne. They charge top tier prices, but what they sell has bottom tier fit and finish.
I modified a ball pein to use as a cobblers hammer, maybe the info will help you make the Osborne usable.
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7 minutes ago, MtlBiker said:I saw them called European style on one of the sites, but Sinabrooks themselves call them "Pricking Irons (French Style)".
I have to admit to quite a bit of confusion about these... and especially about the difference between what some people call "irons" and others call "chisels". My understanding is that these particular ones are not just for marking where you will stitch, but also for punching through the leather and that they could easily punch through 2-3 layers of 6oz veg tan.
In any case, these are not hole punches but rather are slit chisels.
Yea, manufacturers and retailers have made a real mess by using an inconsistent naming convention.
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1 minute ago, MtlBiker said:That's looking really good, and noticeably better than the first batch. You've said that your French chisels are 3.85mm (I've ordered 4mm) but you never said what the regular chisel is (and size) for comparison.
And if I'm not mistaken, the Vinymo thread isn't waxed... are you waxing it?
The regular/comparison chisels are 4mm diamonds from KemovanCraft.
I've tried it waxed, and unwaxed, and personally i don't really see a difference.
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11 hours ago, MtlBiker said:Interesting. I wonder if that's technique. I have yet to try such stitching chisels and I'm impatiently waiting for my order of Sinabroks 4mm European style chisels. I'm hoping they will help me elevate my stitching skills. When I get mine, I'm going to do stitching tests using Ritza Tiger .6, .8 and 1.0 threads. I suspect the 4mm chisels will be too closely spaced for the 1.0mm thread to look good. I like how you've done your comparison test.
Here you can see a comparison now that I'm doing the cast correctly, thought i still need to get a better handle on the appropriate amount of tension for both types of irons so the stitches look more consistent, but I'm much happier with the results.
2 layers of 2.5oz glued together.The thread from top to bottom is :
- 0.4 to 0.45mm Vinymo MBT #8
- 0.6mm Vinymo MBT #5
- 0.6mm tiger thread
- 0.75mm Vinymo MBT #1
- 0.8mm tiger thread
Personally I think the french irons look better on the front side up to Vinymo #1. For the diamonds i wouldn't go larger than the 0.6mm tiger thread or Vinymo #5.On the back side the french are much better than what they where yesterday. Are there any tricks to make the back side of the french look better (more centered vertically)? Or maybe a book with good information in it?
As an aside, one thing I've noticed is that the tiger thread is a little easier to work with imo. Every now and then the Vinymo will twist itself tighter for a stitch or two and throw of the look of the stich.
Front
Back
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2 hours ago, Klara said:You did not punch all the way through with the French irons, did you? Because they are not meant for that...
These aren't pricking irons, they are stitching irons. I checked with the manufacture before I purchased them, and was assured the will happily go through without issue. Using a punch pad of course!
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7 minutes ago, mike02130 said:When you stitch, are you pulling one side up and away from you while pulling the other side down and towards yourself to tighten?
Yea I'm doing that, i picked that part up from the Leodis Leather video on saddle stitching.
I'm working on some practice pieces right now, and i think I have my issue corrected. However the French irons definitely seem more sensitive than the diamonds to the angle and amount of force you use when tensioning the thread. -
35 minutes ago, chuck123wapati said:Get to enjoying the process of making stuff the human way you don't have to be perfect your not a machine. Lets see some projects!!!
Lol, I generally do the exact opposite for everything. I learn everything I possibly can before I start doing something. My wifes says it's an annoying perfectionist trait.
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2 hours ago, MtlBiker said:In what way do those lines seem "off" to you? I think they look pretty darn good. (I've just ordered a set of 4mm French (Euripean) style stitching chisels.) Did you hammer down the stitch lines? The back stitching looks a little, uh, boring, to me and I agree with @battlemunky that maybe adding a cast to the stitch would make it look better.
Take a look at the full resolution photo of the back (right click open in a new window), and you will see that the thread is shifted up on all the french lines, but is centered on the diamond lines. The fronts look the same way to me, just not as extreme.
I was casting, but since I posted the photos, I think i might have had one step wrong, and the diamonds are just doing a better job of covering it up. I need to glue up some more practice leather, But i will give it another go this afternoon when I work through what i think i was doing wrong.
I think the thing that makes it hard to learn, is that none of the popular personalities showing how to stich, use the same terminology. -
I started out with round dents, but they are more niche than i originally thought so I ordered a set of diamond and French irons to try out.
The irons arrived Wednesday, and today was the first day i really had a chance to try them out. The diamond irons are 4mm spacing, and the French are 3.85mm
2 layers of 2.5oz glued together.The thread from top to bottom is :
Vinymo MBT #8
Vinymo MBT #5
Vinymo MBT #1
0.6mm tiger thread
0.8mm tiger threadFrench on the left, diamonds on the right
I stitched ever line using the exact same technique (minus the one mistake), and for some reason the french lines seem off to me. All the thread except the 0.8mm tiger thread doesn't seem to fill the holes right on the front. On the back side all the french lines look bad.
Am i doing something wrong, do I need use a special technique with french irons?Front
Back
The holes before stitching.
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Here you guys go, this is a simple and I would assume very profitable way of disposing of scraps/off-cuts.
The fact that someone is paying $35 dollars for this is mind boggling.
https://www.tannergoods.com/products/single-wristband-cognac-stainless
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10 hours ago, Spyros said:If I make a notebook for myself or my wife I will handstitch it, line it, paint the edges, sand them to perfection and make them shine. I just struggle to believe anyone would actually pay me fairly for that labour.
I got into leathercraft just so I could make a folio (i guess is the best word for it), because i couldn't find anything of the quality or style I wanted even up to the $1k range.
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17 hours ago, mike02130 said:I read some shop's About sections and many describe their dissatisfaction in the corporate or I.T. world. They start an Etsy shop, do social media and then open a Shopify site. They lack the skills to make a quality product and lack the pride of doing excellent work. They judge themselves by their "likes" on social media and their income. Quality is not a barometer for their work.
I was trained as a physicist who specialized in software, and I have worked most of my professional career as a developer, And I love what I do. Imo, the number one issue with most of the people who get disillusioned with tech/IT, is that they shouldn't have been here in the first place. Some of them got sucked in by the allure of a well paying job. A lot of others I have known thought, it would be cool, because it's an office job with lots of down time, and a flexible schedule. However, Almost every single one of them had the same underlying issue, they don't want to learn new things, and they don't want to solve new problems every day.
IMO, the out of hand social media stuff, and general lack of caring about anything, is a sign of poor parenting. I was raised to take pride in my work, whatever it is, and I Generally don't care what most people think one way or the other, as i was raised to know my worth and have self respect. I'm the type of guy who generally says we are either going to do it right, or we aren't going to do it at all.
11 hours ago, Bert03241 said:its sad when you have 3 hrs of labor 2 to 3$ of materials $4.50 in postage plus ebay fee's on an item that should sell for 35 to 40 $ but you sell it for 24 because of all the cheap crap others are selling and I end up making 12 bucks. Who in their right mind works for 3 bucks an hour?We do just because we love making this stuff.
One of my other hobbies is woodworking, and knowing your worth is a topic that's routinely brought up in the community. Doesn't matter if you're a hobbyist who does a commission piece every year or two or a self employed bushiness owner. If you're cheap people who know you will always expect you to be on the cheaper side, and you will never get out from underneath the stigma. I've seen videos, and they usually offer a seminar or who at woodworking shows to go over the details, as they are talking about more than your time and the cost of the materials.
3 hours ago, chuck123wapati said:I don't think you get the choice of who to compete with anymore so i price stuff as i see fit. Just yesterday i saw on my wifes FB page leather cc holsters popping up for about 20 bucks each because i searched them. I cant compete with them at all. Its plain however we now also compete with an algorithm, hundreds in fact, that uses in most cases fake bots and fake likes on social media to push its implied sales and quality.
Imo, The internet is a benefit or a hindrance depending on who you are. Back in the day if you wanted to sell something, you had to do it locally unless you where a large company who could afford regional or national level advertising. Thus, if you were in a saturated market you where going to have a real hard time staying in business.
Today anyone can set up an Instagram account to promote themselves, and an etsy or shopify account to sell their products to anyone anywhere in the world. The down side is that you need to be able to stand out from the crowed. You need to be able to promote yourself via social media with quality videos and photos, and you need the same for your website/store. Sadly I see a lot of people fall flat on their face in this regard, as they think having a website is all they need. Barry Kings website for example is atrocious. If you go looking for a Maul you will find tiny images and no details other then the diameter of the head and the weight. If you want to know how long the handle is, what it or the head are made out of you need to start googling. People reselling his products aren't any better either.
Imo, leather craft is also an industry where the customer needs to be educated to an extent, but very few people are doing it. If I started a leather goods company tomorrow I'd probably have some products that have multiple versions. Hand stitched and machine stitched, lined and unlined, normal and premium leather etc. But i would also have a place where potential customers could learn what those terms mean and what the benefits of one vs the other are.
I saw a very nice portfolio the other day on etsy, but the marketing was terrible. It had a few small pictures, and the description was something like hand made from full grain vegetable tanned shoulder leather. The first thing that came to mind, was your average person has no idea what any of that means, and they aren't going to spend the time to look it up.
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1 minute ago, Chakotay said:Lining adds thickness (and stiffness). Things you may not want on certain items. In particular, I'm always trying to get my wallet as thin as I can.
That part I get, as I've been experimenting with it my self.
As Tugadude said though you can get leather really thin now.
For example I have a 1 oz. sample of Badalassi Carlo Waxy. Imo it would require being lined with something equally as thick as it is, just to be usable. It's so thin and soft to start with, I don't know what you could use it for on it's own. -
Maybe its just me, but it seems like most wallets, notebook covers, folios etc aren't lined. I'm not talking about about the inside of a card pocket or something that never gets seen. I'm talking about features that you are going to see every time you use use the product.
I've thought about it for a while, and the only thing that comes to mind, are cost and aesthetics. For a hobbyist on a budget, or someone just starting out, I can understand not wanting to buy multiple weights of leather so you can line a project, or spending the time to do so. However, I even see a lot of professionals and small mom and pop companies making stuff like this, where cost should be less of a concern.
Take this $90 filed notebook cover for example. This is a "premium" item produced/sold by a good sized company with a good reputation. Imo, this is a rather extreme example, as the flesh side is nasty/hairy, not to mention the stings around the front card slot opening.
https://fieldnotesbrand.com/products/daily-carry-leather-notebook-cover
Am, I missing something? other than costs and aesthetics why are so few items lined? -
Armitage Leather did a 19 min on Vinymo MBT Thread.I'm just getting into leather craft, and since I'm more interested in small items like wallets and follios, I went with Vinymo #5 and John James Size 4 (004) needles.
On 3/21/2022 at 1:29 PM, NDphung said:Order a few small roll (DSL sell them) they are not expensive. Order the guide also since they have so many colors unlike Tiger which I made my own guide.
I 100% agree with this, The guide is a must have do the sheer number of color options (82).
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I found this while poking around Springfield Leathers site. It's far from perfect, but at $2.59 a square foot it's perfect for a beginner like me to practice with.
https://www.springfieldleather.com/Side-SP-Veg-Tan-D-Grade
This 20 sq ft. Hide plus taxes and shipping, was only $61.29.
Queen sized bed for reference.
q ftsqsq ft. ft
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On 3/15/2022 at 5:01 PM, Hairic said:Any ways I would love to hear thoughts for what you would do.
No matter what, make sure the spot where you plan to do your chisel/pricking/punch work is heavily reinforced. Ideally you want one or more legs in close proximity if possible.
It doesn't matter if its woodworking, metalworking, leatherworking etc, if the pounding area isn't rigid, it will be loud, and a lot of the power you put into strikes will be wasted as the top flexes under the load.
For example a very popular style woodworking bench is one that's fitted with a leg vise, and a wagon wheel vise. The benefit of both of these vises, is that when you are going to town with a mallet and chisel you are usually doing it right over, or right next to a leg.
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The cold blue didn't come out well (I expected thats would be the case before I started), and since I didn't want to trash a perfectly good handle just so I could rust blue the head, I begrudgingly , broke out some flat black industrial spray paint! The pictures didn't come out the great, as I was playing dodge the toddler at the same time!
Kemovancraft reviews?
in Suppliers
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I have the 3.85 mm set, and used them to make the test sample on the left side of this photo. The right test sample was done with the the 4.0 mm diamond set.
The thread from top to bottom is :
Please note I'm a complete newbie!