Kid Safe Leather Choices

[Aven]

I've been asked to make shoes for a couple of munchkins (toddlers) and knowing they are super flexible and have to taste everything I'm looking for some advice.  Are there leathers that I should absolutely avoid, toxic to suck on kind of leather. 

And conversely, is there an type of leather that can be gnawed on without worries?  I remember seeing an "organic" leather out of Italy or maybe Spain, but I can't find it now and besides, arsenic is organic so that word doesn't always mean that's it good for you.

Thanks

[chuck123wapati]

33 minutes ago, Aven said:

I've been asked to make shoes for a couple of munchkins (toddlers) and knowing they are super flexible and have to taste everything I'm looking for some advice.  Are there leathers that I should absolutely avoid, toxic to suck on kind of leather. 

And conversely, is there an type of leather that can be gnawed on without worries?  I remember seeing an "organic" leather out of Italy or maybe Spain, but I can't find it now and besides, arsenic is organic so that word doesn't always mean that's it good for you.

Thanks

i doubt you can find any leather different than what toddler shoes are already made out of. I don't think its a worry. As a father ,grandfather would worry more about them eating the stuff off them they step in.

[Klara]

When my belt-making, dog-owning colleague gave my dog a bit of leather to chew on, it was undyed veg tan (probably pretty pricey). (My dog wasn't interested at all). There are a lot of toxic shoe leathers around, made in Pakistan, used for (all) the cheap shoes people like to buy. German TV did a documentary on the subject, Gift auf unserer Haut (poison on our skin). 

My point is that you are right to worry, but my only solution is to find a reputable supplier close to where you live and ask him the questions. I would NOT buy organic from overseas. (Though, incidentally, I wonder what makes you classify arsenic as organic? As far as I know arsenic is a metalloid, meaning it's not part of organic chemistry. Unlike petrol and its products...) The shorter the chain of supply, the better the chance that things are as they should be, to my mind. But maybe I'm naive or deluded...

 

[Aven]

Thank you Klara for your input and the link.  My German is rusty, but I will give it a watch.

As for the arsenic, my mind lept to Arsenic and Old Lace for the poison.  I should have said cyanide.  It's present in apple seeds.

[chuck123wapati]

8 hours ago, Klara said:

When my belt-making, dog-owning colleague gave my dog a bit of leather to chew on, it was undyed veg tan (probably pretty pricey). (My dog wasn't interested at all). There are a lot of toxic shoe leathers around, made in Pakistan, used for (all) the cheap shoes people like to buy. German TV did a documentary on the subject, Gift auf unserer Haut (poison on our skin). 

My point is that you are right to worry, but my only solution is to find a reputable supplier close to where you live and ask him the questions. I would NOT buy organic from overseas. (Though, incidentally, I wonder what makes you classify arsenic as organic? As far as I know arsenic is a metalloid, meaning it's not part of organic chemistry. Unlike petrol and its products...) The shorter the chain of supply, the better the chance that things are as they should be, to my mind. But maybe I'm naive or deluded...

 

 

3 hours ago, Aven said:

Thank you Klara for your input and the link.  My German is rusty, but I will give it a watch.

As for the arsenic, my mind lept to Arsenic and Old Lace for the poison.  I should have said cyanide.  It's present in apple seeds.

i would worry about the sugar in their processed foods first, its the main factor attributed to all the health related diseases they will endure for life. And it is a toxin they do put in their mouths and LOVE to eat. Did you know it is in infant formulas at twice the amount as in soda pop in some brands.

[Klara]

15 hours ago, chuck123wapati said:

i would worry about the sugar in their processed foods first

Completely right, but as I understand Aven, the kids are not hers. Meaning she can't control their diet. But she can do her best to get non-toxic leather for their shoes.

[chuck123wapati]

1 hour ago, Klara said:

Completely right, but as I understand Aven, the kids are not hers. Meaning she can't control their diet. But she can do her best to get non-toxic leather for their shoes.

 I don't enable people to be scared of their own shadow, its become the norm since the phony pandemic. I try and show them there is still some common sense in the world.

how many billions of shoes have been made in the history of the world with how many leathers, plastics and "man made materials"?

how many children have you ever heard have died from chewing on them? 

do the math.

I've raised six kids they don't eat their shoes! some worries are just stupid. sorry.

[Doc Reaper]

On 12/26/2022 at 11:44 AM, Aven said:

I've been asked to make shoes for a couple of munchkins (toddlers) and knowing they are super flexible and have to taste everything I'm looking for some advice.  Are there leathers that I should absolutely avoid, toxic to suck on kind of leather. 

And conversely, is there an type of leather that can be gnawed on without worries?  I remember seeing an "organic" leather out of Italy or maybe Spain, but I can't find it now and besides, arsenic is organic so that word doesn't always mean that's it good for you.

Thanks

SERIOUSLY!!! With the logic behind that question you should be removing all manmade items from your home - including the home!

 

[Handstitched]

A few  eons  ago, I was at a mates place enjoying a few drinks etc. His wife was having a little difficulty with their young child, about 1-2 yo,  crying  screaming etc. he was teething, poor 'lil mite, all parents have been there no doubt,   all the usual remedies didn't work . So I dipped his dummy into my Guiness and stuck it in his mouth..... ....shut 'im up for hours  

So not relevant or on topic....just saying 

HS

[Aven]

2 hours ago, chuck123wapati said:

 I don't enable people to be scared of their own shadow, its become the norm since the phony pandemic. I try and show them there is still some common sense in the world.

how many billions of shoes have been made in the history of the world with how many leathers, plastics and "man made materials"?

how many children have you ever heard have died from chewing on them? 

do the math.

I've raised six kids they don't eat their shoes! some worries are just stupid. sorry.

There are no shadows here.  No conspiracies.  Just a general question about leather and the different tannage processes..

Every shoe manufacture knows the leather they are use and how was manufactured and what was in it.  I don't so I thought I would ask what I thought was simple question to those who know more than I do. I expected an answer of maybe use veg-tanned instead of chrome tanned.  Or maybe just not make shoes for the wee ones because they suck on anything they can put in the mouth. 

But thanks for your input everyone.  It was enlightening

[chuck123wapati]

1 minute ago, Aven said:

 

Every shoe manufacture knows the leather they are use and how was manufactured and what was in it. 

Good luck to you and i am impressed by your willingness to look out for others in such a way.

one would assume that but i highly doubt it. 1. most have them made by a third party. 2. they just don't care its not an issue people don't eat shoes so they don't need to be organic.

Now you need to think about the conditioners polishes and other nasty things your going to smear on them lol.

 

[Aven]

1 hour ago, chuck123wapati said:

Now you need to think about the conditioners polishes and other nasty things your going to smear on them lol.

 

Actually no I don't.  I wasn't planning on spit shining the little darling's shoes.  The parent(s) can decide if they want to put anything other than a damp cloth on them.

[chuck123wapati]

9 minutes ago, Aven said:

Actually no I don't.  I wasn't planning on spit shining the little darling's shoes.  The parent(s) can decide if they want to put anything other than a damp cloth on them.

ok 

organic milk is processed just the same as non organic milk. 

organic beef is processed exactly the same as non organic beef.

hides from these organic cows are processed exactly the same as non organic hides are, with the same chemicals. get it?  so that being said then veg tan is about as close as your going to get. to "organic" leather.

if you buy and pay more for organic leather than regular you are buying a pig in a poke.

 

 

 

[fredk]

When my #1 favorite dottir was a toddler and we as a family did medieval shows I made her slipper shoes from upholstery grade chrome tan leather. They were in the turn-shoes style of making. She had a new pair just about every 6 months, from age about 1 to 6. I think I still have all her sole patterns somewhere; I'm just too lazy to have a good clear-out

Now, whilst she never sat and chewed them she liked them and even when she was of school age she used to change into them after school. She said they were the most comfortable shoes she had

A few years ago I made some small valet trays in veg tan. Dyed and sealed. At that time  I was having a problem with sealing the dyed finish, so I really worked on these. After sealing they were soaked in warm water, in cold water, they got a good saturated wash with alcohol and then with acetone. No dye came off at all. A month after the trays were given out one of the recipients told me, as a funny story, that her 3 y/o grandson had sucked on her tray and came away with a red mouth. I never thought of testing with a toddler's saliva!

[fredk]

Ps. Make them out of rawhide

Get some big dog chews*, soak them, open them up, flatten them then make the shoes

I've made items out of rawhide this way as rawhide is not available here

*if its safe for a dog to eat it'll be safe for a toddler (maybe)

[chuck123wapati]

13 minutes ago, fredk said:

Ps. Make them out of rawhide

Get some big dog chews*, soak them, open them up, flatten them then make the shoes

I've made items out of rawhide this way as rawhide is not available here

*if its safe for a dog to eat it'll be safe for a toddler (maybe)

I used to feed my dogs rawhide chews they aren't unsafe to eat unless they plug them up, some are bleached with nasty stuff however. my male would unravel them and swallow them lol they don't digest so came out looking the same!!  we switched to carrots believe it or not our three bullies love carrots. organic or not lol.

i do have some truly organic hide, we tanned it our selves! brain tanned wild elk and deer. sustainably sourced and ethically harvested. need any more buzz words lol.

[Aven]

Thanks Fred.  I'll include upholstery leather in the list of choices.

Did you use the rawhide for the soles, the uppers or both? 

[fredk]

The turn-shoes were all chrome tan upholstery leather, vamp & sole

The rawhide shoes were different ones; both uppers and soles. Made for babies who were yet to walk or do much walking. I don't know if I still have the patterns for them

They kinda looked like these, with the sole laced to the vamp, a strap over the top to pull tight and a small buckle. After construction the shoes were given several coats of Resolene to seal them. #1 favourite dottir started with these then went on to the turn-shoes

All these were made at the start of my leathercrafting years.

With either of these shoes, they don't very much shaping as children's feet are still forming. The shoes just need to be very flexible

[jcuk]

These maybe worth contacting and asking about their tanning process, just read threw their story it may help you  i have never had leather from them but know of people who have and  they love it. The thing i will say it won't be cheap, i am pretty sure i have seen a supplier your side of the pond. Also  maybe contact some tanneries your side of the pond they might have some kind of product suitable for your need.

https://www.jfjbaker.co.uk/products-1

On 12/28/2022 at 2:00 PM, Aven said:

Thank you Klara for your input and the link.  My German is rusty, but I will give it a watch.

As for the arsenic, my mind lept to Arsenic and Old Lace for the poison.  I should have said cyanide.  It's present in apple seeds.

The part of the country where they are based is cider country more over scrumpy cider home made stuff where they don't remove the apple seeds there have been cases of people who have lost their sight and there have deaths i believe but that was because of years and years of drinking it and not it moderation i would say. 

 

Hope this helps

JCUK

[Aven]

Fred, all my experience with rawhide is trying to use dog chews.  I have soaked them, unrolled them and let them dry again.  It was still very hard and stiff.  Most were too thick to use.  How did you soften it so it could be worn?

 

14 minutes ago, jcuk said:

These maybe worth contacting and asking about their tanning process, just read threw their story it may help you  i have never had leather from them but know of people who have and  they love it. The thing i will say it won't be cheap, i am pretty sure i have seen a supplier your side of the pond. Also  maybe contact some tanneries your side of the pond they might have some kind of product suitable for your need.

I think I will be doing just that.  Thanks

[fredk]

1 hour ago, Aven said:

Fred, all my experience with rawhide is trying to use dog chews.  I have soaked them, unrolled them and let them dry again.  It was still very hard and stiff.  Most were too thick to use.  How did you soften it so it could be worn?

It was 21 years ago and I knew nothing about leather (I still don't!        ) so I'm trying to remember

I was using the rawhide from chews to edge Viking shields. After soaking and unrolling and allowing the rawhide to dry a bit I sliced off the thicker parts. In slices about 2" wide. These were laced or nailed to the shield edges. Almost all the rawhide was no more that about 1.5mm thick, the thinnest parts which I considered waste was no more than about 1mm thick, a lot of it thinner. I realised that the strips of very thin rawhide could be used, the width could do a baby shoe sole and the vamp made in two or three pieces. I was working the rawhide slightly wet. I think, just by constant working of the rawhide in my hands it became more flexible. Certainly the soles dried relatively stiff but the vamps had more flexibility. It certainly was not as soft as the turn-shoes. But if you check out baby shoes in a shoe shop you'll find them very stiff. They are more for protection and for getting baby used to wearing shoes. As baby grows and needs more flexible shoes then the turn-shoes are worn

[hotleatherworlds]

Veg tanned leather is usually better than chrome tanned leather as it uses a lot more less chemicals. I think there are many leather manufacturers who make safe leather in traditional ways which you can use. It is obvious that these non toxin leather will be more expensive than your regular leather.