Manual machine

[Danotriglide]

Good morning everybody,

Hand powered sewing machine caught my eye the other day. YouTube videos were cool, looks like once you deburr everything and lube it up good they work fine, with a little learning curve. But…..if sewing leather wallets and maybe a holster now and then what needle and what thread is recommended? I’m dumber than a box of rox when it comes to thread size and needle types. Can you guys help me out here please? 
 

Thanks!

Dano
 

https://a.co/d/dXY8qik

[chuck123wapati]

there are a bunch of threads on the subject just search a bit.

[PastorBob]

Been there, done that...sold it at a loss and counted myself lucky.  Did the polishing and watched all the videos. No luck.  Good luck if you try it.

[kgg]

4 hours ago, Danotriglide said:

Hand powered sewing machine caught my eye the other day.

Those machines are for the true tinkers. I have one of those "Tinkers Delights " and it has given many hours of pleasurable tinkering or hours of pure frustration depending on how you look at it. Save your money and get one of the one armed bandits from Cowboy, Weaver or Tippmann if you want a hand operated machine that will do holsters without pre punching the thread holes.

kgg

[dikman]

Ahh, the ubiquitous Chinese patcher. They are a "patching machine", basically intended for repair work. It doesn't mean you can't sew new items but you may be disappointed in the results. As for holsters, forget it! There have been plenty of posts about them, and youtube videos. If you insist on getting one you should be able to use common 135x16 needles and #69 thread, be aware that the bobbin is small and won't hold much thread. Some are set up to use standard domestic needles (mine was).

[chuck123wapati]

i've had one for about a week, watched all the videos, polished , lubed, greased and adjusted it. Put it back together and it sews with the thin mono line crap it came with flawlessly. I bought heavier thread t135 and size 22 needles and it sews thin stuff 3/16th" or thinner very well, two pieces of 10 oz nope at least not with the 135, the top thread snaps. i have ordered lighter thread and will let you know on that. 

 What i have concluded in my short session is its a machine i will set up for one thing/ thickness and pretty much leave it alone lol. You need to realize It is made to patch shoes which are usually pretty thin leather so making it sew something it isn't designed for wont work any better than trying to do the same with a 1500 dollar machine, it has its limits

. I am still in the tinkering stage however and may come up with a workable way to sew a little heavier stuff. I'm trying for two layers of 10 oz, i think that's about the max you would ever get it to reliably sew

One thing i did notice that i haven't seen on any video is the thicker leather will actually hit the taper of the needle causing it to stick in the hole and then it lifts the foot. But i have also seen that you can adjust it use the longer industrial needles so that may not be a problem just more tinkering lol.

1.It has a place in the world of leather and It will work but not for every thickness of leather just the same as the spensive ones.

2. you will know  the basics of how a sewing machine works. 

    Good luck!!!!!! 

Ps it sure sews heavy canvas to leather really well so i see some oil cloth back packs and haversacks in my future lol. and it will prolly pay for itself plus a better machine with this strategy in short time. 

[kgg]

3 hours ago, chuck123wapati said:

But i have also seen that you can adjust it use the longer industrial needles so that may not be a problem just more tinkering lol.

The 135 x 16 or 17 needles will fit in the needle bar. This a fairly simple tinkering task of raising the needle bar up by about 5mm. That is about the length difference between the domestic needles that come with the machine and the system 135 needles. This is done by slacking the existing clevis attachment at the top of the needle bar and sliding the needle bar up. Just make sure you can just barely feel the tip of the needle at it's lowest point in the downward cycle on the bottom side of the cylinder arm.

kgg

[Burkhardt]

7 hours ago, chuck123wapati said:

i've had one for about a week, watched all the videos, polished , lubed, greased and adjusted it. Put it back together and it sews with the thin mono line crap it came with flawlessly. I bought heavier thread t135 and size 22 needles and it sews thin stuff 3/16th" or thinner very well, two pieces of 10 oz nope at least not with the 135, the top thread snaps. i have ordered lighter thread and will let you know on that. 

 What i have concluded in my short session is its a machine i will set up for one thing/ thickness and pretty much leave it alone lol. You need to realize It is made to patch shoes which are usually pretty thin leather so making it sew something it isn't designed for wont work any better than trying to do the same with a 1500 dollar machine, it has its limits

. I am still in the tinkering stage however and may come up with a workable way to sew a little heavier stuff. I'm trying for two layers of 10 oz, i think that's about the max you would ever get it to reliably sew

One thing i did notice that i haven't seen on any video is the thicker leather will actually hit the taper of the needle causing it to stick in the hole and then it lifts the foot. But i have also seen that you can adjust it use the longer industrial needles so that may not be a problem just more tinkering lol.

1.It has a place in the world of leather and It will work but not for every thickness of leather just the same as the spensive ones.

2. you will know  the basics of how a sewing machine works. 

    Good luck!!!!!! 

Ps it sure sews heavy canvas to leather really well so i see some oil cloth back packs and haversacks in my future lol. and it will prolly pay for itself plus a better machine with this strategy in short time. 

Yes you will know how sewing machines work. I ran mine with 207 on top and 138 on the bottom and made the second hole on the bobbin/hook (both of them) a touch bigger and smoothed and polished. The bobbin tension I left with little resistance and the top using only one of the tensions almost all the way in. You'll break the needle if you try to pull the thread out through it. That's how I set mine up for and would do 2 pieces of 8-9 no problem, as @kgg said that what I used is the 135x16s. The absolute biggest of the adjustments and things with getting the cams and the arm positioned right was polishing the hook bottom and top of the piece with the gear. Like you said you'll learn everything about sewing machines so if you got any Qs ask away.

[Danotriglide]

Thanks everybody for the replies, If I do go ahead and buy one I’ll get it from Amazon. I’ve sent so much stuff back there anyway. 
 

Thanks again,

Dano

[chuck123wapati]

13 hours ago, kgg said:

The 135 x 16 or 17 needles will fit in the needle bar. This a fairly simple tinkering task of raising the needle bar up by about 5mm. That is about the length difference between the domestic needles that come with the machine and the system 135 needles. This is done by slacking the existing clevis attachment at the top of the needle bar and sliding the needle bar up. Just make sure you can just barely feel the tip of the needle at it's lowest point in the downward cycle on the bottom side of the cylinder arm.

kgg

that will be next i imagine , i have another order in for thread and the longer needles.

9 hours ago, Burkhardt said:

Yes you will know how sewing machines work. I ran mine with 207 on top and 138 on the bottom and made the second hole on the bobbin/hook (both of them) a touch bigger and smoothed and polished. The bobbin tension I left with little resistance and the top using only one of the tensions almost all the way in. You'll break the needle if you try to pull the thread out through it. That's how I set mine up for and would do 2 pieces of 8-9 no problem, as @kgg said that what I used is the 135x16s. The absolute biggest of the adjustments and things with getting the cams and the arm positioned right was polishing the hook bottom and top of the piece with the gear. Like you said you'll learn everything about sewing machines so if you got any Qs ask away.

Thank you i am sure i will be asking. i am lucky as i had all the polishing equipment to do the job, everything important polished to 1000 grit. even the floor plate which helped a bit on the turkey tracks, i think i will be making a longer floor plate and a new foot a little wider with smaller teeth. 

[kgg]

2 hours ago, Danotriglide said:

Thanks everybody for the replies, If I do go ahead and buy one I’ll get it from Amazon. I’ve sent so much stuff back there anyway. 

That is smart as the "Tinkers Delight" I have is actually the second one from Amazon as the first one arrived as a box of broken / cracked pieces of Chinese cast iron.

kgg

[kgg]

1 hour ago, chuck123wapati said:

that will be next i imagine , i have another order in for thread and the longer needles.

This what my "Tinkers Delight" looks like with 1) front and back side light attachment 2) Presser foot position indicator 3) folding table top attachment 4)  adjustable and removable front arm support 5) rear 1 lb thread cone support 6) scissors holder 7) thread guide and the list goes on.

Tinker On

kgg

[Burkhardt]

10 hours ago, kgg said:

This what my "Tinkers Delight" looks like with 1) front and back side light attachment 2) Presser foot position indicator 3) folding table top attachment 4)  adjustable and removable front arm support 5) rear 1 lb thread cone support 6) scissors holder 7) thread guide and the list goes on.

Tinker On

kgg

Did you move the tensioner there on the needle bar thing or is that where it came?

[Burkhardt]

11 hours ago, chuck123wapati said:

that will be next i imagine , i have another order in for thread and the longer needles.

Thank you i am sure i will be asking. i am lucky as i had all the polishing equipment to do the job, everything important polished to 1000 grit. even the floor plate which helped a bit on the turkey tracks, i think i will be making a longer floor plate and a new foot a little wider with smaller teeth. 

I cut the center out to see the needle better and was going to tell you I also drilled the needle plate bigger because the arm has a mind of its and moves. Also don't know if you need any parts look  at Bantom Saddle Tack in the states carry a bunch of the parts for them. Like wanting a extra bobbin tension screw that's 3.00 and you can buy the whole bobbin with the screw for 4.00 and 5 min. after you get it you drop the screw to never be found a again.

 

[DonInReno]

I have one of these, and find them interesting, but it rarely gets used.   It is a fun project, but they are rough - the parts are, well, just rough - the tolerances are rough, the machining is rough, the finish is rough, the operation is rough, and materials like screws, bushings, bearings, etc. are not the best.  I think the upgrades, custom parts, and elbow grease that are being put into these are awesome.  
 

It sews, and I have no plans on getting rid of it, but I predict it will go to a friend or relative that gets interested in sewing and isn’t bothered by the roughness.   Smooth high quality machines have spoiled me.

[kgg]

1 hour ago, Burkhardt said:

Did you move the tensioner there on the needle bar thing or is that where it came?

Yes I moved the tensioners and the second tensioner I use for the bobbin winder.

kgg

[chuck123wapati]

7 hours ago, kgg said:

Yes I moved the tensioners and the second tensioner I use for the bobbin winder.

kgg

very cool machine!!!! where is  your thread  spool located. 

[kgg]

8 minutes ago, chuck123wapati said:

very cool machine!!!! where is  your thread  spool located. 

The thread spool is the blue thing just to the left and under the red scissor scissors holder at the rear.

kgg

[chuck123wapati]

13 hours ago, Burkhardt said:

I cut the center out to see the needle better and was going to tell you I also drilled the needle plate bigger because the arm has a mind of its and moves. Also don't know if you need any parts look  at Bantom Saddle Tack in the states carry a bunch of the parts for them. Like wanting a extra bobbin tension screw that's 3.00 and you can buy the whole bobbin with the screw for 4.00 and 5 min. after you get it you drop the screw to never be found a again.

 

thank you for that info i did that today .

[Danotriglide]

On 1/12/2023 at 11:19 AM, kgg said:

This what my "Tinkers Delight" looks like with 1) front and back side light attachment 2) Presser foot position indicator 3) folding table top attachment 4)  adjustable and removable front arm support 5) rear 1 lb thread cone support 6) scissors holder 7) thread guide and the list goes on.

Tinker On

kgg

Now this is frikkin’ awesome! Looks like a lot of 3d printing? 
 

Thanks for making me want one more now,

Dano

[kgg]

47 minutes ago, Danotriglide said:

Now this is frikkin’ awesome! Looks like a lot of 3d printing? 

Thank you. I do a fair bit of 3d for all my machines as that is also another hobby of mine. All machines due have their place but....

kgg

 

[Wyowally]

I also have one, the "10 bearing" model. Tinkerers delight is an appropriate term.  I am not a highly skilled leatherworker. If I had devoted the tinkering time it took to get the machine working to my satisfaction to learning leatherwork instead I would been expert.  As it is, I AM expert on these machines now. Not a very marketable skill. kgg and I can relate on this I believe.  For those interested or with the machine, the ORGAN brand DPX35D leather point needles work very well.  Chuck123wapati - fellow Wyo person - if I can advise you somehow on the machine let me know! Pic is a coozie I made with it just playing with scraps. Not ready for prime time.

Edited January 16, 2023 by Wyowally
spelling

[kgg]

52 minutes ago, Wyowally said:

If I had devoted the tinkering time it took to get the machine working to my satisfaction to learning leatherwork instead I would been expert.

I think there a lot of these machines are gathering dust in basements as not everyone wants to go through the rebuild, tinkering process. The major downside I think is someone who could really do good items with a proper machine may become frustrated with this machine and consider all sewing machines to be as frustrating only to move onto another hobby.

52 minutes ago, Wyowally said:

kgg and I can relate on this I believe. 

Definitely.

kgg

[chuck123wapati]

1 hour ago, Wyowally said:

I also have one, the "10 bearing" model. Tinkerers delight is an appropriate term.  I am not a highly skilled leatherworker. If I had devoted the tinkering time it took to get the machine working to my satisfaction to learning leatherwork instead I would been expert.  As it is, I AM expert on these machines now. Not a very marketable skill. kgg and I can relate on this I believe.  For those interested or with the machine, the ORGAN brand DPX35D leather point needles work very well.  Chuck123wapati - fellow Wyo person - if I can advise you somehow on the machine let me know! Pic is a coozie I made with it just playing with scraps. Not ready for prime time.

thank you !!! i will .

[chuck123wapati]

1 hour ago, kgg said:

I think there a lot of these machines are gathering dust in basements as not everyone wants to go through the rebuild, tinkering process. The major downside I think is someone who could really do good items with a proper machine may become frustrated with this machine and consider all sewing machines to be as frustrating only to move onto another hobby.

Definitely.

kgg

Seems it works pretty well if you use it in lighter leathers. i see it as a way to get a better machine by utilizing it within its abilities.

 Then maybe mine will collect some dust too. lol but i doubt if i get it dialed in to a certain task i will get rid of it.