Customising a sewing machine?

[Beanwood]

Following on from the various threads recently about changing needle bars, I had a thought...

I don't sew much leather, rather I sew webbing of various thicknesses. I had a need to sew some zigzag stitches, and ended up purchasing a Brother TZ1-B651 - it's an industrial machine, capable of 12mm zigzag, but doesn't have a walking foot, and uses really puny needles. 

I'm adding a pulley speed reducer (6" to 2" reduction),  to reduce the speed, and increase the torque of the clutch motor, but I was thinking I'd really like to change the needle bar for something that will take the same needles as my other machines (DPX17 - I'm UK based, and that's how we know them), but I'd also like to increase the stroke, so I can join some 12mm rope.  I saw a  comment on here from @GPaudler that changing the stroke to do exactly this was straight forward, but as he hasn't been back on since 2018, I can't ask him...

So, 2 initial questions:

1. Is the replacement needle bar simply a case of getting a DPX17 bar with the same dimensions?

2. Does anyone have a link to anywhere that might show me how to increase stroke length please?  

I know the answer is probably to spend £1200+ buying a pre-owned machine that will do the job proerly, but I'm starting up a new business, and funds are tight right now for what may not work out anyway..

Thanks for reading.

 

[kgg]

21 minutes ago, Beanwood said:

I know the answer is probably to spend £1200+ buying a pre-owned machine that will do the job proerly, but I'm starting up a new business, and funds are tight right now for what may not work out anyway..

My opinion is that just increasing the torque and needle stroke isn't going to be enough. Getting basically 1/2" rope to be sewn properly isn't going to workout with the machine. I could be most definitely be wrong but I think you need a proper machine for this type of work.

kgg

[DonInReno]

I can’t say if it applies to that machine, but many fabric machines designed for thin material have a hook that doesn’t feed heavy thread well, too light of presser foot tension, and thread tensioner springs that are also too light, in addition to needle system.   It seems like Sailrite used to modify and sell them under their name for boat owners - one of the sailrite or boat owner forums will have guys who have used them for semi heavy sewing.  I remember one guy who said his sewed up to 138. 

Many machines simply don’t have the needle travel for what you need no matter what needle is used.  The crank that raises and lowers the needle either has enough stroke or it doesn’t.   If the stroke length is long enough, sometimes just raising the presser foot shaft allows something thick to be sewn, but it would have to be dropped to sew fabric.  If the needle bar hits the presser foot you could gain a small amount by filing down the bottom of the needle bar a bit - too much and the needle won’t stay put.

Since you’re sewing dog leashes and not a load rated application, you may be able to pull some of the inner core out of the rope, or simply use a more pliable rope to get it flat enough to fit under the presser foot.   
 

Sounds like a fun project - let us know how it turns out!

 

 

[Beanwood]

1 hour ago, DonInReno said:

I can’t say if it applies to that machine, but many fabric machines designed for thin material have a hook that doesn’t feed heavy thread well, too light of presser foot tension, and thread tensioner springs that are also too light, in addition to needle system.   It seems like Sailrite used to modify and sell them under their name for boat owners - one of the sailrite or boat owner forums will have guys who have used them for semi heavy sewing.  I remember one guy who said his sewed up to 138. 

Many machines simply don’t have the needle travel for what you need no matter what needle is used.  The crank that raises and lowers the needle either has enough stroke or it doesn’t.

 

 

Thanks - some good points there. I agree with you - with the stroke being driven by crank - I coudn't see an easy way of increasing it - hence my surprise that it was apparently done by @GPaudler and wondering how he managed to sew 12mm rope - as I want to do!! I suppose it could be possible to increase the crank length, but that looks pretty hairy to me.

Regarding thread weight - I've never managed to find a good US to UK conversion of V69 etc - but it's happy enough to sew with Metric 27 - Tex 105?  so not by any means te heaviest, but not too bad. (I'll ty some M20 when  get a few minutes..

It's strangely satisfying watching a 10mm ZZ in M27 thread

 

 

 

 

[kgg]

11 minutes ago, Beanwood said:

Regarding thread weight - I've never managed to find a good US to UK conversion

I like this one from A&E :

https://www.amefird.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/5-Thread-Size-Comparison-Chart-2-4-10.pdf

kgg

[Beanwood]

19 minutes ago, kgg said:

I like this one from A&E :

https://www.amefird.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/5-Thread-Size-Comparison-Chart-2-4-10.pdf

kgg

Thanks - that's the one I've been using, allied with the Sailrite one https://www.sailrite.com/Selecting-the-Right-Thread-Size

[Quade]

Quote

and wondering how he managed to sew 12mm rope - as I want to do!! I suppose it could be possible to increase the crank length, but that looks pretty hairy to me.

Did you notice whether his presser foot was all the way down when he lowered the foot?  On my Singer, the lower position of the rear foot height is controlled by a clamp that clamps over the lifer shaft.  The clamp is what the manual lifter engages to lift the feet.  I could imagine loosening the clamp, pulling the  shaft up and clamping on a lower position so the foot never rested on the lower section of the machine but dangled in the air. Then when you lifted it would lifter higher because it started higher.  Since you're pressing on something thick, it would still press on it but it would simply start in a higher position.  Would probably have to adjust the inner foot and needle bar position too. 

I've never actually done this.  I was just imagining how my 211 linkage works. 

 

Edited January 15, 2023 by Quade

[CowboyBob]

23 hours ago, Beanwood said:

Following on from the various threads recently about changing needle bars, I had a thought...

I don't sew much leather, rather I sew webbing of various thicknesses. I had a need to sew some zigzag stitches, and ended up purchasing a Brother TZ1-B651 - it's an industrial machine, capable of 12mm zigzag, but doesn't have a walking foot, and uses really puny needles. 

I'm adding a pulley speed reducer (6" to 2" reduction),  to reduce the speed, and increase the torque of the clutch motor, but I was thinking I'd really like to change the needle bar for something that will take the same needles as my other machines (DPX17 - I'm UK based, and that's how we know them), but I'd also like to increase the stroke, so I can join some 12mm rope.  I saw a  comment on here from @GPaudler that changing the stroke to do exactly this was straight forward, but as he hasn't been back on since 2018, I can't ask him...

So, 2 initial questions:

1. Is the replacement needle bar simply a case of getting a DPX17 bar with the same dimensions?

2. Does anyone have a link to anywhere that might show me how to increase stroke length please?  

I know the answer is probably to spend £1200+ buying a pre-owned machine that will do the job proerly, but I'm starting up a new business, and funds are tight right now for what may not work out anyway..

Thanks for reading.

 

You can't change the stroke BUT you can buy these 135x5  needles up to size #24,I know they are shorter but they will fit in w/o any problems.this isn't a real heavy duty machine either so you'll be limited to sewing around 8mm at the most.You might try to adjust the needlebar up so the longer 135x17's will fit & it will give you more clearance for thicker webbing but IDK if this machine would ever sew 12mm consistently.

[Beanwood]

4 hours ago, CowboyBob said:

You can't change the stroke BUT you can buy these 135x5  needles up to size #24,I know they are shorter but they will fit in w/o any problems.this isn't a real heavy duty machine either so you'll be limited to sewing around 8mm at the most.You might try to adjust the needlebar up so the longer 135x17's will fit & it will give you more clearance for thicker webbing but IDK if this machine would ever sew 12mm consistently.

Thanks - unfrotunately the 135x17 won't fit - the shank is too large, hence wanting to swap the needle bar. Following your post though, I see I can get larger size with the same 1.63mm shank - so that's worth a look.

I have missed the obvious though - measuring what the maximum stroke of the machine is at the moment, and whether I can get a longer needle (Do they exist?) in 16x95.

[CowboyBob]

31 minutes ago, Beanwood said:

Thanks - unfrotunately the 135x17 won't fit - the shank is too large, hence wanting to swap the needle bar. Following your post though, I see I can get larger size with the same 1.63mm shank - so that's worth a look.

I have missed the obvious though - measuring what the maximum stroke of the machine is at the moment, and whether I can get a longer needle (Do they exist?) in 16x95.

That's right I forgot those take a smaller shank,You can get a 71x1 needle same length & shank diameter up to size #140