FrenchMich Report post Posted March 21, 2023 Hello All, Just a question about Herman Oak leather. I'd like to know if some of you has problem with Herman Oak Leather. Since few years, when I order some side in French dealer I receive material which which no longer corresponds at tha previous quality. My dealer tell me it's A grade, while there is a lot of defects on the side, the flanc part is biger and really soft (straight to the trash). And more the grain (flower ? I don't know the name in English)of leather is very brittle. It plugs the holes of my Bargrounders and the result is shitty. Result of my job of this morning My tools during the background What I get with good leather My supplier told explains to me that it's not his fault and to directly see with HO factory (they don't answer me). I think that, maybe my supplier lies to me and he send me all his waste. Please, tell me if you have the same problems. Mich' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomE Report post Posted March 21, 2023 (edited) I did receive some HO sides in 2021 that were puckered or had more defects than usual. I was told they were behind on production because of an equipment failure at the tannery (a large splitter? was being repaired) so perhaps they were sending out leather that was less than usual quality. Their sales manager answered my questions on the phone. Since 2021 I've had top quality HO sides, purchased from Springfield Leather Co. SLC will accept returns of leather in good condition. I recently visited their store and they opened bundles of bridle sides for me to inspect. Almost all of them were excellent in terms of consistency and minimal defects. Not sure if your distributor is an authorized dealer or getting HO leftovers from other sources. Edited March 21, 2023 by TomE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tugadude Report post Posted March 21, 2023 20 minutes ago, TomE said: I did receive some HO sides in 2021 that were puckered or had more defects than usual. I was told they were behind on production because of an equipment failure at the tannery (a large splitter? was being repaired) so perhaps they were sending out leather that was less than usual quality. Their sales manager answered my questions on the phone. Since 2021 I've had top quality HO sides, purchased from Springfield Leather Co. SLC will accept returns of leather in good condition. I recently visited their store and they opened bundles of bridle sides for me to inspect. Almost all of them were excellent in terms of consistency and minimal defects. Not sure if your distributor is an authorized dealer or getting HO leftovers from other sources. Good answer. A good dealer has nothing to hide, no pun intended. I also deal with SLC and while I don't buy as much as most here, they have always gone out of their way in order to help me. I wonder whether the OP has other options for procuring leather and related products. Sounds like there is at least some distrust with the current supplier. Telling a customer to take it up with the manufacturer isn't the best approach. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FrenchMich Report post Posted March 21, 2023 (edited) It's the authorized dealer for Europe... << Telling a customer to take it up with the manufacturer isn't the best approach.>> I absolutely agree with that. I can't call to Hermann OAk, my level is too low. I speak, I manage in writing but my listening is not good. The only one answer i received few months ago told that I don't know use the HO leather... Anyway, thank you for your feedback. Edited March 21, 2023 by FrenchMich Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuck123wapati Report post Posted March 21, 2023 1 minute ago, FrenchMich said: It's the authorized dealer for Europe... So then is he the only one? Both the dealer and the leather are bad. they should at least reimburse you for that crap. They have the ability to inspect their orders from the manufacturers and return bad leather just as you should its not your job its theirs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FrenchMich Report post Posted March 21, 2023 (edited) I totally agree with that too. When Hermann was a family business, I had the email of Mr Hermann and when I had problem he quickly found a solution for me. Even if I'm a toddler client. I try to make a quality job, and I loos all my efforts because of leather quality. From France, It's very complicated and leathers here are not adapted for carving and western saddlery. For your information, a Hermann OAk Tooling and molding strap 10/11 here is 430 € (currently 1€=1$) Mich' Ps: When I buy my Ho Leather through Weaver Leather, I have no problem Edited March 21, 2023 by FrenchMich Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GrampaJoel Report post Posted March 21, 2023 The only problem I have ever had with Herman oak was when I bought tannery run. I know they say tannery run is the standard, but there is a choice, or select grading also. but even then tannery run was better quality than what I had purchased from Tandy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FrenchMich Report post Posted March 21, 2023 26 minutes ago, GrampaJoel said: The only problem I have ever had with Herman oak was when I bought tannery run. I know they say tannery run is the standard, but there is a choice, or select grading also. but even then tannery run was better quality than what I had purchased from Tandy. I systematically order "A" grade, and in any case that is what my supplier claims to deliver to me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
purplefox66 Report post Posted March 21, 2023 I think your dealer is lying to you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FrenchMich Report post Posted March 21, 2023 It's the reason why I'd like speak with a responsable of HO. But I can't do that I don't have level in English. I have some friends who are saddlemaker in USA, maybe I'll ask to them to inquire. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomE Report post Posted March 22, 2023 With all the beautiful leather and saddles produced in France, it didn't occur to me that tooling leather would be difficult to obtain. I've admired the tooled elements that sellier Jean Luc Parisot incorporated into his work. https://www.instagram.com/parisot_sellier He might know of another source for tooling leather in France. His friend Pedro Pedrini would know how to get in touch with Jean Luc. https://pedrinisaddleco.com/biography Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hags Report post Posted March 22, 2023 I use Goliger leather in California. You can't order on line so I call and tell them I need another hide. It was explained to me that they buy a and b, grade etc from ho. They don't grade them, ho does. They also told me many other places buy tannery run lots and grade them themselves. Their idea of A grade might vary a great deal from ho. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Burkhardt Report post Posted March 22, 2023 For curiosities sake I'm guessing that it's got the HO stamping on it because that color looks more like what we would import veg tan. Your first pic looks like import and the second looks like HO. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FrenchMich Report post Posted March 22, 2023 4 hours ago, TomE said: With all the beautiful leather and saddles produced in France, it didn't occur to me that tooling leather would be difficult to obtain. I've admired the tooled elements that sellier Jean Luc Parisot incorporated into his work. https://www.instagram.com/parisot_sellier He might know of another source for tooling leather in France. His friend Pedro Pedrini would know how to get in touch with Jean Luc. https://pedrinisaddleco.com/biography I know them very well, they are two good friends of mine. Jean-Luc use the same supplier than me. I call to Pedro each week and we have a lot of exchanges. I don't have their reputation and not the same considération and and they aren't served the same. When I said I 'll ask of a friend to call to HO, I was thinking to Pedro. I know too all the saddlemakers of TCAA, because I wrote sevaral articles about them for a French Westen Magazin for more of 15 yaers. 3 hours ago, Hags said: I use Goliger leather in California. You can't order on line so I call and tell them I need another hide. It was explained to me that they buy a and b, grade etc from ho. They don't grade them, ho does. They also told me many other places buy tannery run lots and grade them themselves. Their idea of A grade might vary a great deal from ho. Yes I think Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FrenchMich Report post Posted March 22, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, Burkhardt said: For curiosities sake I'm guessing that it's got the HO stamping on it because that color looks more like what we would import veg tan. Your first pic looks like import and the second looks like HO. Yes there is HO Brand but It's a ''tooling molding strap'' and the colour is always a little more white than skirting. And maybe it's also due of the lighting of my workshop. Edited March 22, 2023 by FrenchMich Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomE Report post Posted March 22, 2023 5 hours ago, FrenchMich said: I know too all the saddlemakers of TCAA, because I wrote sevaral articles about them for a French Westen Magazin for more of 15 yaers. I'd enjoy seeing your work. I don't have the skill to make a saddle and have focused on bridles and reins for jumpers and dressage. Antares is a favorite for their styles of bridles. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FrenchMich Report post Posted March 22, 2023 I essentially work about chaps, I made a few of western saddles, only for our personal needs. There is some examples of my work on this forum. If you want I can post some pictures of saddles. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcuk Report post Posted March 23, 2023 I know Abbey England stock Hermann oak leather so i contacted them to see what what grade it is they have told me its grade AB, don't know if this is any good to you but maybe contact them yourself to if they could get you grade A leather. Also does it have to be Hermann Oak because i know AA Crack stock Wickett & Craig. There may be other suppliers of good tooling leathers in the UK that maybe of use to you https://www.abbeyengland.com/hermann-oak-russet-side-e1ah1 https://www.aacrack.com/pages/wickett-craig Hope this helps JCUK Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FrenchMich Report post Posted March 23, 2023 (edited) Hello Jcut and all, I know Abbey, but since you left Europe It's more difficult for us to buy in England, shipping cost are more expensive than those to bring from USA. Moreover the exchange between our currencies is to our disadvantage. But, it's not the problem. you will say that I am complicatedn The Russet is too soft, and it's the same for wickett and Craig which is drummed (trumbled?) leather. I already tried it. I'm very satisfied with Hermann Oak when I receive quality sides. But it's the problem. In any case, thank you very much for all your help and your ideas. Mich' Edited March 23, 2023 by FrenchMich Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
