Questions About: Heavy-Duty Herman Schwabe Industrial Clicker Press – 25 ton

[frogsaw]

I recently purchased my first clicker press, and I have questions about the condition of this press. Perhaps I should’ve fielded these questions before I completed the purchase, but what is done is done. 

After unloading the press, I noticed two cracks on the cast portion of the press that moves, swings and articulates with the hydraulic function. My question is, are these cracks considered to be a catastrophic failure of this press? Is this press safe to use?

Any help or guidance is greatly appreciated and I look forward to the discussion of this topic.

[bruce johnson]

Cracks on both sides of the arm along a stress line. When that lets go it may be mild creak and separation but could also be spectacular. Personally, I'd be calling the scrap guy and call it a tough lesson. 

[frogsaw]

That’s fair…mild to spectacular. That’s quite the range. So am I correct in the understanding that there is no means to repair or replace this part?

[bruce johnson]

35 minutes ago, frogsaw said:

That’s fair…mild to spectacular. That’s quite the range. So am I correct in the understanding that there is no means to repair or replace this part?

On a stress area like that I would not trust a repair. There is a bunch of old Schwabe clickers out there. Getting just the part, fitting it, and making sure it mates? You may end up buying another machine for parts. You already know what this weighs. The guys that do the repairs reliably are few and far between. It looks like this has a double switch to actuate. If it is a single, the guys who might close their eyes and work on it are even less. If everything else works well (and I mean well) then it might be worth it. Sometimes after moving one and setting up, there can be hydraulic leaks and other major issues that were not there before. When you see cracks here, you have to wonder what else you don't see.  At some point it comes down to economics vs anticipated usage. If you are doing production stuff with big dies then maybe, and chasing repairs vs a new one might be in the picture. If you are thinking small dies and not a hundred a day - maybe a manual leverage or press clicker?

[Mulesaw]

Like Bruce Johnson says, I'd also call the scrap dealer.

Cast iron can be welded, but generally it won't hold up very good to stress. It is more suited to fix a leak in a pump casting or an old engine manifold. 

If I had to try to make a repair on this, I'd do it using strips of mild steel. 
Get some mild steel bar that is 3/8 x 1".
Cut out a piece to go as far as possible on either side of the crack. Drill some holes in each end of the piece, and drill + tap corresponding holes in the casting.
Mount the piece using bolts.

Make another piece and mount it right next to the first one in the same manner. But try to make the holes in the casting some space apart from the first holes. (To avoid making it like a perforated piece of paper).

Keep mounting those pieces till you have covered it all on both sides.

Weld those pieces together, taking your time and peen the weld while it cools down to minimize stress.

It is still however a repair, and there is no guarantee that it will work for full power on the clicker. If you can do it yourself and the machine was expensive, it could be worth trying, but it could also just end up being flogging a dead horse.

Sorry to not have any better news. 

Brgds Jonas

[frogsaw]

I really appreciate this discussion! The good news is that I didn’t pay much for this machine. The bad news is that I am still In the hole when considering the scrap value compared to what I paid and the cost to transport. 
 

I will get this connected to electric and assess the condition of the rest of the machine. I have an electrician in the family and already have three phase in my shop, so these costs will be minimal. After that I will make my decision going forward. 
 

Thanks again for sharing your wisdom!

[mbnaegle]

I'm in agreement that cracks in these old heads are the curtain for the whole machine.

I've heard of them being welded before, but it takes a lot of skill(money!) and even if they're successful, there's a high chance of it breaking again. Also note that most Schwabee's had cast aluminum heads, and some were cast Magnesium. Iron, Aluminum, and Magnesium castings can all be welded, but each are difficult in their own ways and require lots of skill and experience. I wouldn't do it unless it was a special application machine for which no replacements were available.

There's a lot of force working on the head, and most break because the machine is regularly over-loaded, or it has lots of cuts on the outside perimeter of the head rather than closer to the ram. When choosing a clicker, know that you need a minimum of 1 ton of force for every 6" of die edge, including the diameters of any punches. If the dies are bent, dull, or the cutting pad is not level, that robs power.

You might be able to get some life out of it, but I'd try to keep your dies all close to the ram, and don't try any large dies.

[ljk]

I've had a 25 ton Schwabe for over 30yrs.  I would search for another beam and that would be a narrow one.  Wide beams tend to crack, probably because of heavy use. I think it may because height differance from side to side because of pad wear  Even my USMC C came with cracked wide beam bought in 1992 put on a narrow beam no problems since. Also no problems with narrow beam on my Fipi 20.  

Welding aluminum requires experience and skill but is possible.  Luckily the beam can be unbolted. `Personally I would search for a narrow beam, I bought my USMC beam from Melody Machine in Calif in 1993.  That Schwabe is a beast, never spent a nickel on it other then oiling  and fluid. A  workin machine is more valuable.  You may be able to narrow the beam.  Probably need to add  a new alum base pad.