Stepping up from entry-level brands

[ThisIsMyFirstRodeo]

Hey all, so I find myself needing a little more variety of tool sizes and such, and at this point I might as well start stepping up from hobby lobby/tandy/craftool. 
so where would you start? ObvParticular brands that are still rather budget friendly but better quality/material/mfg? Obviously Osborne/BKing are worth the money, but I don’t necessarily want to go north of maybe $40/tool (without really knowing where the price breaks are). Maybe Wuta? Other similar brands?

— AZR

[bruce johnson]

A few years ago I wrote a series of articles for Illume magazine on this very subject. It ended up to be about a five or six part series I think. It may be worth subscribing and getting the back issues for the whole show. Buy sizes you find yourself using  - you don't have to buy the whole range to start with.

Some random thoughts on tools that make a difference in stepping up- 

Cutting tools - Knives - you mostly get what you pay for in edge retention and durability vs. cost. We are talking about "stepping up" so if someone says "box knife" that is great but not trading up. For a decent round knife $100 - $125 gets you in a good one and a few hundred puts you in ones your grandkids may use. Lots of good knife makers right now. 

Stamping tools - smooth walking stamps like shaders and bevelers not as important,. Single impression tools like geometrics, borders, and basket stamps -  they should be the first to trade up. Barry King is the best overall value for the midrange stamp trade up, I tell people who call me that fact almost daily. Wayne Jueschke is sticker shock for some and business-as-usual for a lot of others. 

Edgers - nothing worse than crappy edgers. All kinds of different styles, price points, country of origin. Barry King round back edgers are a good midrange choice and Ron's Tools are the top or near that. 

Mauls  - Barry King or Clay Miller are good ones, I have used pretty much every maker and there is a reason I sell Wayne Jueschke. They fit my hand and style well. Head material is not slippery and very durable

Punches - there are some good ones - Once sharpened - CS Osbornes and Bylers are my choices. Weaver are good also. 

Biggest thing that makes a difference is learning to sharpen, or know somebody who does. People have a lot of money invested in tools that cut and don't invest in learning to maintain them. A dull $50-120 edger is no better than a dull Craftool edger at some point if you don't know. 

 

Buying used - I have a bit of bias here (obviously). If you don't know and can't afford the risk - don't play craps in the casino and don't buy used tools cheap on Ebay. There are a lot of tools sold that need work to clean up and sharpen to be usable. I hear it when they get them. They get in touch with me to refurbish them and when they find out half are trash (the reason I didn't buy them) - hard lesson learned. 

I'll probably think of more but my lunch is here. 

[alfredleatherworks]

Of all the people to comment on this topic, @bruce johnson is one of (if not the) best to do so. I’ve learned a lot reading on his website and watching what tools he sells. I second the suggestion of used tools, most of mine are. A good quality tool will last a lifetime (or more) and I’m a little biased in that I like the aesthetic of many of the tools of yesteryear.

There’s also a lot of good information if you dig through this forum, which can take some time to sift through but it’s worth it imho. I also like the book “Dictionary of Leather-Working Tools, c. 1700-1950, and the tools of allied trades”, which you can find on Amazon, eBay, Thriftbooks/AbeBooks (sometimes), etc. 

I started out with a lot of the usual “suspects” for tools, though now my tooling stamps all still read “Craftool” they’re all the vintage pre-1990 ones when they were still hand-machined and not cast. Cheaper than buying Barry King, and while not nearly as nice as BK they’re a far cry better than the common cast stamps you commonly find today. I’ve been gifted some, inherited others, and found about half of them on eBay. 

I’m a huge fan of C.S. Osborne tools, especially their vintage ones. Gomph as well, if I can find/afford them. 

For new-production tools, I find the black “ebony” (probably not actually, but they look nice) handled tools from brands like Wuta are better than some of the brands we consider cheap, only in that I don’t have to sharpen them as often and they’re more aesthetically pleasing. In all honesty, I’d rather buy the antique/vintage tools, or modern handmade ones from BK or other similar makers (someday, I’ll own those petal lifters from Grey Ghost Graphics!). 

[ThisIsMyFirstRodeo]

On 5/29/2026 at 1:54 PM, bruce johnson said:

A few years ago I wrote a series of articles for Illume magazine on this very subject. It ended up to be about a five or six part series I think. It may be worth subscribing and getting the back issues for the whole show. Buy sizes you find yourself using  - you don't have to buy the whole range to start with.

Some random thoughts on tools that make a difference in stepping up- 

Cutting tools - Knives - you mostly get what you pay for in edge retention and durability vs. cost. We are talking about "stepping up" so if someone says "box knife" that is great but not trading up. For a decent round knife $100 - $125 gets you in a good one and a few hundred puts you in ones your grandkids may use. Lots of good knife makers right now. 

Stamping tools - smooth walking stamps like shaders and bevelers not as important,. Single impression tools like geometrics, borders, and basket stamps -  they should be the first to trade up. Barry King is the best overall value for the midrange stamp trade up, I tell people who call me that fact almost daily. Wayne Jueschke is sticker shock for some and business-as-usual for a lot of others. 

Edgers - nothing worse than crappy edgers. All kinds of different styles, price points, country of origin. Barry King round back edgers are a good midrange choice and Ron's Tools are the top or near that. 

Mauls  - Barry King or Clay Miller are good ones, I have used pretty much every maker and there is a reason I sell Wayne Jueschke. They fit my hand and style well. Head material is not slippery and very durable

Punches - there are some good ones - Once sharpened - CS Osbornes and Bylers are my choices. Weaver are good also. 

Biggest thing that makes a difference is learning to sharpen, or know somebody who does. People have a lot of money invested in tools that cut and don't invest in learning to maintain them. A dull $50-120 edger is no better than a dull Craftool edger at some point if you don't know. 

 

Buying used - I have a bit of bias here (obviously). If you don't know and can't afford the risk - don't play craps in the casino and don't buy used tools cheap on Ebay. There are a lot of tools sold that need work to clean up and sharpen to be usable. I hear it when they get them. They get in touch with me to refurbish them and when they find out half are trash (the reason I didn't buy them) - hard lesson learned. 

I'll probably think of more but my lunch is here. 

Thank you Bruce, and I’ll add your Illume series into my research list. 

FWIW, I’ve had some issues with the Captchas on your site, though I imagine it’s user error and haven’t put in much effort to resolve the issue on my end. But to that end, my questions mainly revolved around round/head knives and any differences in purpose/utility of the different sizes/shapes/geometry. Oh, and if they are frequently single-bevel, as I’m a southpaw (as a cook, ran into issues mainly with my Japanese knives…). 

All that said, thank you, and I’ll continue my research.

— AZR

[bruce johnson]

8 hours ago, ThisIsMyFirstRodeo said:

Thank you Bruce, and I’ll add your Illume series into my research list. 

FWIW, I’ve had some issues with the Captchas on your site, though I imagine it’s user error and haven’t put in much effort to resolve the issue on my end. But to that end, my questions mainly revolved around round/head knives and any differences in purpose/utility of the different sizes/shapes/geometry. Oh, and if they are frequently single-bevel, as I’m a southpaw (as a cook, ran into issues mainly with my Japanese knives…). 

All that said, thank you, and I’ll continue my research.

— AZR

Thanks for the heads up, I will have my webguy check the Captcha. 

Round knives 
- double bevel always, most with a slight convex or flat grind secondary bevel. 
- Size - most all of the older ones have started out at 5" or 5-1/4" and have been sharpened down if they are smaller. Some people prefer a smaller knife for "bench work" and a larger knife for cutout. Some makers now make a new 3" and 4" blade for that purpose. I sell a fair amount of new 4 inch and new 3 inch knives.
- Shape. The curve helps with keep more blade in the leather and more of a slicing action for straight cuts. The ones with more distinct and acute angle "points" are better for tight curves. Some old knives have been sharpened almost to an arrowhead shape with nearly flat sides from the front middle to the points. i rarely see that in old US knives but some of the old knives that I would get from Australia and England were that way. I was curious. I had a guy from Australia via England order one shaped like that and called it "that Walsall shaped Osborne" in his email. Walsall was a big leather town in England. He told me that flat edge profile was great for getting a lot of blade in the leather and making straight cuts for strap work. I can see that. In general - more round - straight cuts, acute points - detail cuts. The general shape of most round new knives allows you to rock forward for straight cuts and rock back for curves for less blade in the leather. French pattern round knives combine a traditional round knife profile on one half and the other side has more distinct points for tight curves. Some people really like them, some don't. 
Handle size - makes a difference to some people, because of the way I grip a knife - it doesn't matter much to me. I am choked up on the handle with my thumb and index finger on the blade. The other three fingers just steer the knife. My hand is over the points and I steer knife from the back end like the rudder on a boat. I am not putting sideways pressure on the blade to turn. The back of the handle turns and the blade cuts through the bow of a boat. 
Handle shape - hate is a strong word but I seriously seriously dislike directional or drop handles. It is OK with the drop end down I guess, but when you go to use the other point that handle being up really messes with me. I am not alone. I get those directional handle knives in for sharpening. The normal side is dull as a hoe, the other side (where the handle would be up) is still pretty OK. You ask them and they admit they use one side of the knife way more than the other. You bought two sides on the knife, it should be comfortable to use them both. Straight handle lets you do that. The other plus for straight handles - you can easily flip them end for end in your hand. Sometimes I'd catch myself flipping the knife repeatedly while I was ponder the meaning of life or my next cut. Sort of a razor edged fidget spinner. Can't do that with a drop handle. 

if you have any other questions please let me know!

[ThisIsMyFirstRodeo]

2 hours ago, bruce johnson said:

Thanks for the heads up, I will have my webguy check the Captcha. 

Round knives 
- double bevel always, most with a slight convex or flat grind secondary bevel. 
- Size - most all of the older ones have started out at 5" or 5-1/4" and have been sharpened down if they are smaller. Some people prefer a smaller knife for "bench work" and a larger knife for cutout. Some makers now make a new 3" and 4" blade for that purpose. I sell a fair amount of new 4 inch and new 3 inch knives.
- Shape. The curve helps with keep more blade in the leather and more of a slicing action for straight cuts. The ones with more distinct and acute angle "points" are better for tight curves. Some old knives have been sharpened almost to an arrowhead shape with nearly flat sides from the front middle to the points. i rarely see that in old US knives but some of the old knives that I would get from Australia and England were that way. I was curious. I had a guy from Australia via England order one shaped like that and called it "that Walsall shaped Osborne" in his email. Walsall was a big leather town in England. He told me that flat edge profile was great for getting a lot of blade in the leather and making straight cuts for strap work. I can see that. In general - more round - straight cuts, acute points - detail cuts. The general shape of most round new knives allows you to rock forward for straight cuts and rock back for curves for less blade in the leather. French pattern round knives combine a traditional round knife profile on one half and the other side has more distinct points for tight curves. Some people really like them, some don't. 
Handle size - makes a difference to some people, because of the way I grip a knife - it doesn't matter much to me. I am choked up on the handle with my thumb and index finger on the blade. The other three fingers just steer the knife. My hand is over the points and I steer knife from the back end like the rudder on a boat. I am not putting sideways pressure on the blade to turn. The back of the handle turns and the blade cuts through the bow of a boat. 
Handle shape - hate is a strong word but I seriously seriously dislike directional or drop handles. It is OK with the drop end down I guess, but when you go to use the other point that handle being up really messes with me. I am not alone. I get those directional handle knives in for sharpening. The normal side is dull as a hoe, the other side (where the handle would be up) is still pretty OK. You ask them and they admit they use one side of the knife way more than the other. You bought two sides on the knife, it should be comfortable to use them both. Straight handle lets you do that. The other plus for straight handles - you can easily flip them end for end in your hand. Sometimes I'd catch myself flipping the knife repeatedly while I was ponder the meaning of life or my next cut. Sort of a razor edged fidget spinner. Can't do that with a drop handle. 

if you have any other questions please let me know!

Thank you! That answers almost all my questions, or at least those theoretical ones. Always more once I can handle the knife and feel it in my hand lol, but I think I know how to start shopping now. 
Out of curiosity though, what do you use for the surface of your cut table? I’m finally building one big enough to lay out a full side, but I don’t want to destroy the edge or have to constantly repair the surface.

— AZR

[ThisIsMyFirstRodeo]

2 hours ago, bruce johnson said:

Thanks for the heads up, I will have my webguy check the Captcha. 

Round knives 
- double bevel always, most with a slight convex or flat grind secondary bevel. 
- Size - most all of the older ones have started out at 5" or 5-1/4" and have been sharpened down if they are smaller. Some people prefer a smaller knife for "bench work" and a larger knife for cutout. Some makers now make a new 3" and 4" blade for that purpose. I sell a fair amount of new 4 inch and new 3 inch knives.
- Shape. The curve helps with keep more blade in the leather and more of a slicing action for straight cuts. The ones with more distinct and acute angle "points" are better for tight curves. Some old knives have been sharpened almost to an arrowhead shape with nearly flat sides from the front middle to the points. i rarely see that in old US knives but some of the old knives that I would get from Australia and England were that way. I was curious. I had a guy from Australia via England order one shaped like that and called it "that Walsall shaped Osborne" in his email. Walsall was a big leather town in England. He told me that flat edge profile was great for getting a lot of blade in the leather and making straight cuts for strap work. I can see that. In general - more round - straight cuts, acute points - detail cuts. The general shape of most round new knives allows you to rock forward for straight cuts and rock back for curves for less blade in the leather. French pattern round knives combine a traditional round knife profile on one half and the other side has more distinct points for tight curves. Some people really like them, some don't. 
Handle size - makes a difference to some people, because of the way I grip a knife - it doesn't matter much to me. I am choked up on the handle with my thumb and index finger on the blade. The other three fingers just steer the knife. My hand is over the points and I steer knife from the back end like the rudder on a boat. I am not putting sideways pressure on the blade to turn. The back of the handle turns and the blade cuts through the bow of a boat. 
Handle shape - hate is a strong word but I seriously seriously dislike directional or drop handles. It is OK with the drop end down I guess, but when you go to use the other point that handle being up really messes with me. I am not alone. I get those directional handle knives in for sharpening. The normal side is dull as a hoe, the other side (where the handle would be up) is still pretty OK. You ask them and they admit they use one side of the knife way more than the other. You bought two sides on the knife, it should be comfortable to use them both. Straight handle lets you do that. The other plus for straight handles - you can easily flip them end for end in your hand. Sometimes I'd catch myself flipping the knife repeatedly while I was ponder the meaning of life or my next cut. Sort of a razor edged fidget spinner. Can't do that with a drop handle. 

if you have any other questions please let me know!

Oh, and for your web guy, I’m using Safari on an iPhone 15 Plus, with iOS v26.5

[bruce johnson]

56 minutes ago, ThisIsMyFirstRodeo said:

Thank you! That answers almost all my questions, or at least those theoretical ones. Always more once I can handle the knife and feel it in my hand lol, but I think I know how to start shopping now. 
Out of curiosity though, what do you use for the surface of your cut table? I’m finally building one big enough to lay out a full side, but I don’t want to destroy the edge or have to constantly repair the surface.

— AZR

My cutting surface is 3/8 inch high density polyethylene (HDPE). Has been for 20 plus years. When you learn that you push forward on a knife and not "down" it just glides. Low density poly is soft enough that blades can dig in and you can twist off points, plus the drag. (LDPE is great for punching, not for cutting).  I skive on glass. Got an old car window for that. Self healing mats really drag, I don't like them except for roller blade knives. 

Aside story on cutting on cutting surfaces. Several years ago I tried a "new maker" round knife at Al Gould's shop. Bob Dozier had visited with Al and Dale Harwood about round knives and came up with some designs based on their preferences. Bob was really well known for his hunting knives at the time and was going to make some round knives. I really liked Al's knife and told my wife that Bob was going to be a Sheridan the next month. while I never thought I needed a $200 round knife, I do now. First stop was Bob's booth when they rang the opening bell. I grabbed one and went to pay for it - he told me I better try it. This thing would cut good for about 3 inches and hit the wall. "That's no good" he said. He had the same thing happen, tried another knife and same. The blade looked good, WTH?? We figured it out when we looked at the board. That plastic was so soft that as we pushed forward the blade just sank into the cutting board - a good 3/8 inch deep. Ends up he had forgotten his cutting boards at home and went across the road the night before to Walmart and bought some cheap ones. I bought the knife... A couple hours later he hit me up (in the bathroom). He was sold out and wanted to know if he could get my knife back as a demo for the rest of show, take it home and resharpen, then send it to me. Yessir. We talk every so often on the phone.  "what are you up to today Mr Bob?" - "I'm just making the best pot of gumbo ever!"  It is impossible to have a bad day after talking with Bob Dozier. Still my favorite knife. 

[ThisIsMyFirstRodeo]

12 hours ago, bruce johnson said:

My cutting surface is 3/8 inch high density polyethylene (HDPE). Has been for 20 plus years. When you learn that you push forward on a knife and not "down" it just glides. Low density poly is soft enough that blades can dig in and you can twist off points, plus the drag. (LDPE is great for punching, not for cutting).  I skive on glass. Got an old car window for that. Self healing mats really drag, I don't like them except for roller blade knives. 

Aside story on cutting on cutting surfaces. Several years ago I tried a "new maker" round knife at Al Gould's shop. Bob Dozier had visited with Al and Dale Harwood about round knives and came up with some designs based on their preferences. Bob was really well known for his hunting knives at the time and was going to make some round knives. I really liked Al's knife and told my wife that Bob was going to be a Sheridan the next month. while I never thought I needed a $200 round knife, I do now. First stop was Bob's booth when they rang the opening bell. I grabbed one and went to pay for it - he told me I better try it. This thing would cut good for about 3 inches and hit the wall. "That's no good" he said. He had the same thing happen, tried another knife and same. The blade looked good, WTH?? We figured it out when we looked at the board. That plastic was so soft that as we pushed forward the blade just sank into the cutting board - a good 3/8 inch deep. Ends up he had forgotten his cutting boards at home and went across the road the night before to Walmart and bought some cheap ones. I bought the knife... A couple hours later he hit me up (in the bathroom). He was sold out and wanted to know if he could get my knife back as a demo for the rest of show, take it home and resharpen, then send it to me. Yessir. We talk every so often on the phone.  "what are you up to today Mr Bob?" - "I'm just making the best pot of gumbo ever!"  It is impossible to have a bad day after talking with Bob Dozier. Still my favorite knife. 

Yeowww! Budget considerations just slapped me around when I was looking for an HDPE board. (Planning on a full 48x96 tabletop…) I’ll make that investment eventually, but I need something more affordable in the meantime. My thoughts had been 3/4” melamine or 3/4” sanded hardwood ply (def not OSB), though I’m open to suggestions
Regardless of which route I go, I do understand that I would frequently be sanding down and filling scratches/gouges, but my overwhelming concern is catching a gouge and killing my edge. Or my cut. 

[bruce johnson]

2 hours ago, ThisIsMyFirstRodeo said:

Yeowww! Budget considerations just slapped me around when I was looking for an HDPE board. (Planning on a full 48x96 tabletop…) I’ll make that investment eventually, but I need something more affordable in the meantime. My thoughts had been 3/4” melamine or 3/4” sanded hardwood ply (def not OSB), though I’m open to suggestions
Regardless of which route I go, I do understand that I would frequently be sanding down and filling scratches/gouges, but my overwhelming concern is catching a gouge and killing my edge. Or my cut. 

Seriously it might be nice to cover a 4x8 foot cutting table, but not 100% necessary. Our leather shop is a long single car width garage. I had a 30 x 60 cutting and work table and cut a lot of saddle parts out of sides on it. I never felt cramped with my cutting. I flipped that board once in 15 years. A few minutes with a finishing belt and it was 100% fresh when Rundi started in there. She changed tables and  uses a surplus military officers desk for a cutting table - lots of purses, bags, and things like that. You might find that only covering part is enough and then you have the open area for putting down sacrificial boards for dyeing and finish work. 

You aren't going to need to resurface HDPE very much. Depending on where you are, some people find it at Home Improvement stores sold as "puck board". I have a TAP Plastics about an hour away and have always picked up, shipping is a killer for the big stuff. I have never cut on Melamine. Plywood, I have and would not go back, same for Masonite.  Al Gould had clear sugar pine and likes it. Probably harder to get knot free now.