Machines for shop speed

[ThisIsMyFirstRodeo]

Hey all!

Clicker vs Burner:

So I’ve come to believe that I need machinery to be more efficient in my fledgling shop. I’m making smaller items, and some with more intricate cuts. 
If I were to pull the trigger, why would I pick one over the other? (Oh, and I have zero experience with any sort of design software…)

— AZR

and May You Never Burn Your Bacon. 

[CowboyBob]

With a clicker you'll need a different die made for every design,with a burner you save the design in your computers memory.

[chuck123wapati]

 

Do you plan on making multiple copies of one product or custom one-of-a-kind stuff? 

If you want to make multiple copies of the same thing, for example, then a clicker press is the way to go. You can stamp out dozens of one pattern at a time. 

I can't say if a burner would help, as I don't know if it would even cut as fast as by hand. I do know it wouldn't help me. But if time is in your equation, then add in learning to use the machine, learning to use the software, creating the patterns, or buying the patterns. Then wait a year and do it all over because they updated or simply just made your burner or software obsolete. 

But the catch is, the more efficient you make it with machinery, the more it looks like you made it with a machine. So then pretty soon you're in competition with Walmart and some of the lower-end leather goods. Is that what you want to make?

[Mulesaw]

I'd say that @chuck123wapati has some very valid points, I would especially be wary of the software learning curve, and the software updates that will come in the future (but I am generally skeptic about that kind of stuff).

If you are mostly making small items, I'd think that a small hand operated clicker could be of use, But again it all depends on the thickness of leather that you are going to cut etc.

I suppose that technically it is possible to make your own dies, but that might require some extra machinery and definitely some time to be able to make a good product there, so it might be cheaper int he long run to buy them from someone who specializes in making dies.

Brgds Jonas 

[ThisIsMyFirstRodeo]

5 hours ago, chuck123wapati said:

 

Do you plan on making multiple copies of one product or custom one-of-a-kind stuff? 

If you want to make multiple copies of the same thing, for example, then a clicker press is the way to go. You can stamp out dozens of one pattern at a time. 

I can't say if a burner would help, as I don't know if it would even cut as fast as by hand. I do know it wouldn't help me. But if time is in your equation, then add in learning to use the machine, learning to use the software, creating the patterns, or buying the patterns. Then wait a year and do it all over because they updated or simply just made your burner or software obsolete. 

But the catch is, the more efficient you make it with machinery, the more it looks like you made it with a machine. So then pretty soon you're in competition with Walmart and some of the lower-end leather goods. Is that what you want to make?

I guess let’s take my current project for an example… I’m making a dozen mini dragon skull key/bag charms (Dieselpunk’s pattern, I believe). I also just finished a half dozen hammerhead shark key/bag charms as well (Vasile & Pavel’s), and have some glasses cases and small tobacco-type pouches on deck. 
That said, those are small items to create sales on my displays and build brand recognition for custom orders. I don’t expect to make much from them aside from a (hopefully) steady revenue stream. 
Any custom/one-off orders I get will be hand cut, unless some detail work necessitates a machine. 
Though if I think I’m re-reading your Walmart remark correctly (no offense taken whatsoever), I don’t simply want to burn an image/design onto a bible cover to sell. Actually having talked about it with daughter last night, if I did want to do something like that, she would then paint over it like a coloring book, and wants to create some of the artwork herself (she’s a budding digital artist).

— AZR

Oh, and I very well may use a sewing machine at some point (actually never used one before), but I enjoy hand stitching too much to ever really move away from it. Maybe limited-run items like a particular bag, but when a customer orders a one-off, they get hand-made. 

[bruce johnson]

Clickers are a topic of themselves. You can buy a 25 ton hydraulic clicker that weighs a bunch. Old ones require you to be a mechanic. Newer ones - not so much. They are all heavy not portable. 

Personally, I used a 20 ton floor shop press for years with steel scrap plates on the beams and over top of the dies, LDPE for the cutting bed. It was cheap and pretty fast. I had a Lucris III press that somebody offered me an insane amount for and sold it. I have a bench top shop press with air over hydraulic jack in it I got in a shop purchase. I like that one too (a lot). Weaver 4 ton Mighty Wonder has been here and Rundi liked it. She mostly does small dies. I got a 4 post Vevor cam operated lever press in a buyout of the leather department of a craft store.  Rundi likes the Vevor better than the Weaver. I sold the Weaver, and the Vevor does all she wants. Sooo, for smaller dies a press would be a better option than a clicker in my mind. 

The rule of thumb for one guy I respected his opinion was the anticipation of more than 25 items of something and he was getting a die made.  I watch for interesting clicker dies for sale.  Mostly things Rundi would use for purse charms or filigree cut outs. Otherwise we have them made and there are several die makers out there now. 

Laser cutting works, but the people with them talk to me about burned or charred edges and having to clean that up. Also lasering chrome tan is reported to be pretty toxic with chromium in the fumes and ventilation is a big concern for them (or not). 

[alfredleatherworks]

I am budgeting for the BuckleGuy 12-ton clicker press, personally. Most of what I make, or will make, will be easy enough to get dies made and click out production runs fairly quickly. Weaver makes a similar on that is 8-ton, the difference is apparently in the leverage arm. One of the concerns for me in my shop is available power, and space, of which I have neither for a good laser machine.

I have a friend I pay for laser work. He runs a 60-watt and a 40-watt CO2 laser. The 60-watt he tells me is enough to do single-pass cuts in 8-10oz leather (which I think is quite impressive). He quite likes his setup and does a lot of very clean leatherwork using it.

I think either is a good option, depending on your available funds and space. Both can be quick, though the laser is faster for turnaround on one-off projects vs having to get a clicker die made for each one.