Servo or speed reducer ? What do I need to slow down my my 111w155?

[Brynn]

Hi, I'm new here. Been doing leatherwork as a hobby for a couple years and now I finally got myself an old sewing machine. Singer 111w155. It has a clutch motor on it and I'm gona need to slow it down. Im not very knowledgeable about this whole topic, although I have done some research, trying to figure out what I need to make the machine able to sew nice and slow through thick leather for my projects. From what I understand there are 3(?) options? (Servo motor. Speed reducer. Change pulley size.) I'd really like to keep the price down because its not a big money-making business. Like maybe in the $100-$250 range. I live in the boonies in Manitoba Canada far from cities so I would like something that I could get shipped. Like from Amazon.ca maybe or wherever. 

So my question is - what would you recommend I need? Just a servo? Any servo? Or just a speed reducer? Or what... 

Thanks so much in advance☺️ 

[friquant]

Here is some reading material that presents multiple options: Choosing a Motor for your Industrial Sewing Machine

[alfredleatherworks]

Given that I’m in the US and you’re in Canada I cannot recommend a supplier, but I think that if you want to keep the price low you might want to try either a smaller pulley wheel on the clutch motor or a speed reducer. When I was in Uruguay last year it was about $15 USD to buy a new pulley wheel at an automotive shop and then a small bit of machining at a local machine shop to get it to fit the motor spindle. You can also likely find an industrial sewing machine vendor in Canada that sells a speed reducer, which is my preferred option as it increases torque more than the smaller pulley wheel on the motor will. Decreasing the speed and increasing the torque makes it easier and smoother to sew through leather. The speed reducer will likely run you somewhere in the $150 USD range though. 

EDIT: slowing the machine down too much will cause it to stall out. For example, without the speed reducer on my Juki 1541 I can run the servo motor at its speed “1” setting, however with the speed reducer I cannot go lower than speed setting “3” without the machine stalling. However, it still sews slower at speed setting “3” with the speed reducer than it did without.

Edited August 4 by alfredleatherworks

[kgg]

1 hour ago, Brynn said:

Hi, I'm new here. Been doing leatherwork as a hobby for a couple years and now I finally got myself an old sewing machine. Singer 111w155. It has a clutch motor on it and I'm gona need to slow it down.

 

1 hour ago, Brynn said:

From what I understand there are 3(?) options? (Servo motor. Speed reducer. Change pulley size.)

Simple answer is dump the clutch.

Install a servo motor and install a speed reducer chances are you probably will not need a smaller motor pulley. The speed reducer will reduce the speed by basically to 1/3 of what the motor speed is set at.

There are basically two types Brushed and Brushless Servo motors. Personally I like to keep things simple for operation and maintenance. The Brushed servo motors are simpler and can be repaired quicker usually by just replacing the motor brushes (5 minutes) while the Brushless can offer the needle positioner option which may or may not work with you setup and in a lot of cases if there is a problem it is cheaper just to replace the whole unit sort of like a BIC lighter. 

1 hour ago, Brynn said:

Like from Amazon.ca maybe or wherever. 

The following photo's and links were grab from the internet.

Brushed Servo Motor: $208 CAD, 550 watt

https://www.amazon.ca/Industrial-Sewing-Machine-Motor-Electric/dp/B0DX28QPJS/ref=sr_1_11?crid=1CZCS6V412Q95&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.1gcm_IsKaUGYy4_vJ7bi3k3-paYvjfbBT3RzChpHW3imr5gAZ394nXgbBvAOBbQMzrLIGSMg1MB25rKAOrfiBBlRmW9kPXaN5lZDTmZyP-k-WlT-VpK_oZSmGtUv7kjaZeKYkYluvJehDf7z_VB6YVwfQjg-3jCMPVSPP7fUIZ8fyssKOAEXPn44wTNgz5VQDcIeNi7WOA5fb3lVO0dexjIxtD6HWy2M5MXt7inBd55UJ6ab3l1VHl9j_SejBMquk8okcvWKcGvQt_CTTBFmbczFwHRCJriikuXncy3TLiw.XbyFIMC3qYooVl0QaITgcLju_kRbFFEVYAjIJ8ZptEo&dib_tag=se&keywords=servo+motor+for+industrial+sewing+machine&qid=1785860663&sprefix=sewing+machine+servo+motor+%2Caps%2C202&sr=8-11

Brushless Servo Motor: $109 CAD and up for 550 watt

https://www.amazon.ca/Machine-Industrial-6000RPM-Brushless-Instruction/dp/B0DFWF7MD3/ref=sr_1_8?crid=23A0AJG39JL86&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.1gcm_IsKaUGYy4_vJ7bi3k3-paYvjfbBT3RzChpHW3imr5gAZ394nXgbBvAOBbQMzrLIGSMg1MB25rKAOrfiBBlRmW9kPXaN5lZDTmZyP-k-WlT-VpK_oZSmGtUv7kjaZeKYkYluvJehDf7z_VB6YVwfQjg-3jCMPVSPP7fUIZ8fyssKOAEXPn44wTNgz5VQDcIeNi7WOA5fb3lVO0dexjIxtD6HWy2M5MXt7inBd55UJ6ab3l1VHl9j_SejBMquk8okcvWKcGvQt_CTTBFmbczFwHRCJriikuXncy3TLiw.XbyFIMC3qYooVl0QaITgcLju_kRbFFEVYAjIJ8ZptEo&dib_tag=se&keywords=servo%2Bmotor%2Bfor%2Bindustrial%2Bsewing%2Bmachine&qid=1785861480&sprefix=servo%2Bmotor%2Bfor%2Bindustrial%2Bsewing%2Bmachine%2Caps%2C166&sr=8-8&th=1

Speed Reducer: 3:1 ratio (2" and 6" pulley) $151 CAD

 

https://www.amazon.ca/Reducer-Pulley-Industrial-Sewing-Machine/dp/B0DBVT6G13/ref=sr_1_6?crid=3H7WU6QGO2JV6&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.33swIcf4a3hoK1XO5eh2quN-fXCHWiaMgtWEpM61Otv_JayZNoNPsDb8AkspOZx2ZrZGzN_1tidlQEil1mhknNwyyFUIyBvSNICEjkryTevwr47HkTlMartkKqXadSiw_svqzwhEPSn6Ah4V_NeUf08S4dydbM48JxjSIcQBttsWqurliGj1-4NiYuKFUKQienaB_wbqflfy1Dzb3i6hMAVCQlgVMVHENoGfq0z7s-0JNpRGBgboB4G5Z6xseuuBwOye1lgyznmfe_1slAMpM8y_Q-B6mIXlTYBzjDXUKzU.EWGin_xxO55JNJeuK0Ta48caoM8ssA4nhE3O_IeUN-w&dib_tag=se&keywords=industrial+sewing+machine+speed+reducer&qid=1785861960&sprefix=industrial+sewing+machine+speed+reducer%2Caps%2C137&sr=8-6

kgg

 

[friquant]

Getting an oversize handwheel is an inexpensive way to slow down your machine. First you remove your existing hand wheel and measure the shaft diameter. Then find the biggest v-belt pulley you can that has that shaft diameter. Here is a photo of my 341 with a 250mm pulley. (original was 80mm)

Note I also swapped out the motor pulley for a 45mm pulley (original was 75mm)

[kgg]

46 minutes ago, friquant said:

Here is a photo of my 341

OK, why is the elastic band on the reverse lever????

 

[friquant]

18 minutes ago, kgg said:

OK, why is the elastic band on the reverse lever????

One of my major quibbles in  Review of Jiang Long 341 after Four Months:

4. Reverse Spring

The reverse spring is so stiff that it was hurting my arm to use it. Ultimately, I disconnected the spring where it hooks under the frame and used a number 64 rubber band to hold the lever in the “up” position.

 

I do have a small aspiration to acquire a spring (softer than stock) that I could mount internally. But I only get to a hardware store a couple times a year.

[kgg]

3 hours ago, friquant said:

Ultimately, I disconnected the spring where it hooks under the frame and used a number 64 rubber band to hold the lever in the “up” position.

That works and an inexpensive alternative.

kgg

[dikman]

Definitely get rid of the clutch motor and replace it with a servo! There are plenty of generic types on ebay which are perfectly adequate.Trust me, just fitting a servo will be a huge step forward for you. I also consider a speed reducer of some sort a must with the cheaper servos as it will give better slow-speed control. You can buy a reducer or make your own using bearing blocks and pulleys. 

The other option, as friquant mentioned, is to replace the handwheel with a larger pulley, it is a fairly simple way to reduce speed in conjunction with a servo, I have used both methods on my machines.

[Brynn]

Thanks so much everyone for your responses!!!! Good info here. Helpful to understand the dif between brushed vs brushless servo. Thanks for the amazon links @kgg

A couple questions to anyone...

What wud be the difference (pros/cons) of JUST a speed reducer vs JUST a servo motor on my machine? If I were to start with one and see how it goes from there...

The needle positioner option with the brushless servo: kgg mentioned it may or may not work with the setup. Why would it not work? In your opionin(s) is a needle positioner an important feature?