Barge cement not sticking

[wood]

I just put some cement on the gullet piece for a rough out saddle and it is not bonding to the slick side of the leather. Just wondering your thoughts. Old glue?? It's only been out of the can and in the pot for a month or so. I glued some leather to the seat strainer yesterday and it bonded fine. The glue also seemed to bond ok with the tree. But when it's on the leather and I let it sit for five to ten minutes, you can just rub it with your finger and it rolls up and leaves the leather looking like nothing was ever on it. I've used Barge for a while but this is the first time this has happened. Any ideas?

[barra]

well it sounds like it is going off because you can roll it off the item you put it on and it has adhered other items. Sounds like the smooth grain side of the leather needs to be roughed up to give you good adhesion. you can use a knife point, broken glass, course sandpaper, wire welders brush etc to rough it up

Barra

[TracyMoss]

Even if you rough up the smooth side, when the leather is too wet it will peel off. Make sure that your leather is mostly dry before you apply it. I always block out my gullet and mark it off before I put it in. If you have done these things then maybe your glue needs to be thinned down a little. hope this helps.

TM

[D.A. Kabatoff]

Hey Wood,

I'd try what the others suggested, rough up that grain and apply the glue on dryer leather... something else that works if you're really having problems is to thin up some glue with thinner so that it's very runny. Apply that to the leather first cause it'll absorb into the leather better; let it dry for a good hour or more (overnight if you can plan your work around it). After that first coat is nice and dry you can wet your leather again to make it a little easier to work with; dry the water off the dried glue and apply a regular coat of glue to it and let it set as normal and it should stick to anything.

Darc

[bruce johnson]

I'm with Darcy too. In fact on my parts, I will rough up the grain side, apply the thin cement to the dry leather, let the first coat dry, and then give it a bath. Then when it comes out, wipe the water off the glued surface, apply another coat. When everything is the right temper, fan a paint stripping gun across the dried cement. This will activate it (make it more sticky) and then slap it down. I am told this is what Barge is designed for by the shoe and boot folk - being heat activated. I have never been impressed with Barge's ability to stick to leather that is wet initially.

I have a full size fire extinguisher in my shop, and have never had need for it with the paint stripping gun and Barge, even on high. I have tried to light it up and can't get it to go. However, I did touch a sort of freshly glued in zipper end that was a bit frayed to a candle to seal the fray. That will light up your life. Note to self, no open flames with Barge.

[Studio-N]

Was it the 2 oz tube of barge or the Quart can or better that you used?

It wasn't advertised, but Barge did reformulate their glue. You have to shake up the cans

to mix the two major components up. peace.

[Ronny]

Some thing is different about Bargs glue. I opened a new gal can yesterday and it seems stronger smelling(if possible) and it was a clear copper color. I glued some skirt plugs and forgot them for an hr or so and needed to reposition one and it peeled off like rubber glue. Sure not a permanent bond like the old stuff.

Ronny

[Steve]

I had the same problem the other day, plugs peeled right off. I put another coat of glue on and they stuck like they should. I have no idea why they didn't stick the first time.

[jwwright]

Anybody been using the Duall 88 Cement? I got a couple quarts of it from Siegels, and like it just fine. It is thinner than the Barge, and it is clear.

[TracyMoss]

I use Master's. Wouldn't go back to Barge if you shot me.

[Doug C]

where do I find Master's?

Thanks,

Doug

[wood]

Thanks for all the replys. I think it may have been the too wet thing. I had roughed up the grain side and still wouldn't work great. I'll form it again tonight and let it dry then put the glue on. Thank y'all again for the help.

[Randy Cornelius]

I know some you you really like barge but I will never use it again, simply because of the problems I have had in the past about it not sticking to wet leather. I have been using Duall 88 for the last couple years with great results. I find that the Duall 88 does not have to be thinned like the barge had to be. It remains the same consistancy from gal to gal. I have used Masters before and it works very well but the fumes it puts off is something else. I work in my basement and the exhaust fan will not draw out the Masters without it going through out the house. You also have to have a tax ID to buy Masters.

Randy

[kseidel]

R H products that makes Duall 88 makes a cement called XL8. It is not quite as fast, but the bond is much stronger, and it will stick to oily surfaces. Is thin and penetrates well for a pre-wetting coat. Takes a bit to get used to as it works different than barge or masters, but I like it the best of all cements on the market. Keith

[bruce johnson]

While we are talking glues here, does anybody have experience with using EMU's SAR 36 cement?

[Randy Cornelius]

where do I find Master's?

Thanks,

Doug

Anywhere that has shoe repair will have it. Sheridan Leather Outfitters carried it the last time I was there I seen it.

RC

[TracyMoss]

where do I find Master's?

Thanks,

Doug

Doug, contact www.panhandleleather.com they are the cheapest I know of. They will sell it to you.

[RyanCope]

Like some of you I quit using Barge a few years back. It won't stick to latigo easily. Used Masters for a few years. Currently using a german brand called Renia. Wow!

WARNING. This stuff should only be used by hard core glue lovers.

Ryan Cope

[AndyKnight]

I havn't used barge for about 15 years. I quit when I stopped fixing boots.

I use contact cement which is available at any building supply co. As well, I have also started using a helmefix latex base contact cement to get away from the fumes. It works well , sticks incredibly stong. downside is it takes a lot longer to dry to be ready to stick. If it isn't dry it just won't stick.

[JAM]

where do I find Master's?

Thanks,

Doug

I pick up Master's at Tandy(the Leather Factory) in Spokane, WA - it's not on the shelves, but they keep it in the back room for commercial (tax ID) customers only, so you have to ask for it. It's probably at other Tandy/Leather Factory stores, also.

Julia

[Leerwerker]

where do I find Master's?

Thanks,

Doug

TANDY carries the Masters and Masters Solvent

[esantoro]

R H products that makes Duall 88 makes a cement called XL8. It is not quite as fast, but the bond is much stronger, and it will stick to oily surfaces. Is thin and penetrates well for a pre-wetting coat. Takes a bit to get used to as it works different than barge or masters, but I like it the best of all cements on the market. Keith

Keith,

What I like about Duall is that it works well and the fumes aren't too strong. I like that XL8 has an even stronger bond. Are the fumes very strong with the XL8?

Ed

[esantoro]

Keith,

What I like about Duall is that it works well and the fumes aren't too strong. I like that XL8 has an even stronger bond. Are the fumes very strong with the XL8?

Ed

Just got the xl8 in. Fumes are much stronger than they are in the Duall 88, which looks and smells a lot like weldwood.

ed

[esantoro]

I know some you you really like barge but I will never use it again, simply because of the problems I have had in the past about it not sticking to wet leather. I have been using Duall 88 for the last couple years with great results. I find that the Duall 88 does not have to be thinned like the barge had to be. It remains the same consistancy from gal to gal. I have used Masters before and it works very well but the fumes it puts off is something else. I work in my basement and the exhaust fan will not draw out the Masters without it going through out the house. You also have to have a tax ID to buy Masters.

Randy

Randy,

Where are you getting your Duall #88 in the gallon? I just tried the xl-8, and I think the #88 is better.

ed

[esantoro]

Keith,

What I like about Duall is that it works well and the fumes aren't too strong. I like that XL8 has an even stronger bond. Are the fumes very strong with the XL8?

Ed

My first impression with the xl-8 is that it doesn't provide a stronger bond than the 88 does. Maybe it provides a stronger bond over time.

ed