Pressure sensor pads?

[daviD A Morris]

Hi all,

I'm interested in researching these computerised pressure mapping pads (Force Sensing Arrays) that can be used to guage the pressures that a horse is feeling under the saddle. So far I have read a couple of technical papers and seen brief clips of them on U-Tube videos. I saw one at Equitana 1991, but assume that they have come a long way in the 17 years since.

Hoping that someone here would have had some direct hands on experience with them and share that experience with us. From the papers that I have read and one person I have spoke with so fay, these pads, like everything, have some limmitations.

Appreciate any help, thanking you in advance.

dam

Edited February 19, 2009 by daviD A Morris

[mulefool]

David, there is a woman near Seattle that has one. I have talked to her a few times and also talked to people who went to her to get help with saddles they were having trouble with. Here's her address and phone

Gavin Wissler

210 240th St S E

Bothell, Washington 98021 USA

Phone 425-483-1594

Hope this helps, Chris

[daviD A Morris]

Chris,

Thankyou for that.

dam

[Jackie]

Here is a summary of a study of the accuracy of the pressure pad.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16014331?dopt=AbstractPlus

[David Genadek]

Hi all,

I'm interested in researching these computerised pressure mapping pads (Force Sensing Arrays) that can be used to guage the pressures that a horse is feeling under the saddle. So far I have read a couple of technical papers and seen brief clips of them on U-Tube videos. I saw one at Equitana 1991, but assume that they have come a long way in the 17 years since.

Hoping that someone here would have had some direct hands on experience with them and share that experience with us. From the papers that I have read and one person I have spoke with so fay, these pads, like everything, have some limmitations.

Appreciate any help, thanking you in advance.

dam

I used them a bit when they first came out. I know two people that had purchased the systems prior to the big lawsuit. It was nice to have scans showing that my bars did exactly what I had thought they would but a person's hand can tell them the exact same thing just as easily and at much less expense. Where I did find the information very helpful was in regards to pads. I design my bars for use with a Navajo blanket and when used with a Navajo blanket the scans came back the best these people had ever seen however, when a heavier pad was used we started getting pressure points all over the place. It was good information to have when I started designing trees for the PRCA Ropers because I knew that they would be using heavier padding I was able to compensate in the shape of the bar.

Ferrand won of the lawsuit and since my friends had purchased their systems from the company that was in violation of the patent they could no longer use their systems of which they had invested close to $30,000 each.Ferrand then stop pushing the notion of computerized pad and began pushing his Saddletech gauge. I still believe this is probably the best device that anyone has come up with for getting a handle on saddle fitting. I pleaded with him to do it at an affordable price and to establish a database that the information could be fed into and shared. In the end he kept the device priced too high. Despite that it still stood a chance of creating a real change unfortunately he then aligned with Len Brown at Orthoflex and tried to get the government to impose standards for saddle fitting at which time he lost all support from the industry.Ferrand also lacked the depth of knowledge he needed in equine biomechanics and ridding, as such he started the tree company that advertised that it would make asymmetric trees based on the readings he got from his gauge. They used laminations to create the shape. In the end this is the tragic flaw behind every research study I have seen on saddle fitting.The rider has a responsibility in this overall equation they must be able to govern the five essentials of horsemanship especially the first essential which is straightness. Without that the reciprocating systems in the six limbs of the horse's body become out of balance and asymmetries are created. Further the asymmetries prevent the proper tensionning of the dorsal ligament which then affects all the major muscle groups that attach to it.

Personally I think everybody would be much better off spending their money on some real anatomy courses then these gimmicks just wouldn't be necessary.

David Genadek

[Denise]

The device yielded valid results, but was only reliable in highly standardised conditions. The results question the indiscriminate use of current saddle pressure measurement devices for the quantitative assessment of saddle-fit under practical conditions and suggest that further technical improvement may be necessary.

I have read this full article. (Thanks Jackie, for posting a link to the abstract!) The above quote really summarizes it I think. While it can be useful for acquiring information, you have to be careful in how you do it, know enough about the equipment to use it properly, and then, most importantly, understand enough about saddles, horses and their interactions to be able to interpret what that equipment is telling you correctly.

David, I disagree that these sensor pads are gimmicks. They are used to sell a lot of gimmicks though! As a research tool, I can see them as being very useful. Used carefully, they can confirm or deny theories regarding saddle fit and prove in a scientifically repeatable manner what was only anecdotal prior to their availability. Used indiscriminately, they can provide a lot of false conclusions. As with any tool, the usefulness depends on how much skill and knowledge are behind the hands wielding it.

[David Genadek]

I have read this full article. (Thanks Jackie, for posting a link to the abstract!) The above quote really summarizes it I think. While it can be useful for acquiring information, you have to be careful in how you do it, know enough about the equipment to use it properly, and then, most importantly, understand enough about saddles, horses and their interactions to be able to interpret what that equipment is telling you correctly.

David, I disagree that these sensor pads are gimmicks. They are used to sell a lot of gimmicks though! As a research tool, I can see them as being very useful. Used carefully, they can confirm or deny theories regarding saddle fit and prove in a scientifically repeatable manner what was only anecdotal prior to their availability. Used indiscriminately, they can provide a lot of false conclusions. As with any tool, the usefulness depends on how much skill and knowledge are behind the hands wielding it.

Denise,

I wholeheartedly agree with what you've said I should have been more specific with my statement. The pressure pads in knowledgeable trained hands are surely a valuable although somewhat limited tool. However, used within the context of saddle fitting for hirer they become a gimmick.

I think it's also important to note that it was a technology that Ferrand invented for monitoring patients in hospital beds which he then tried to expand his market into saddle fitting. This is important to realize as its original purpose was that of taking measurements in a static system which is a far cry from the dynamic situation of saddle fitting. One of the limits of the systems in the past has been that they were unable to capture the data while the horse was moving. I know there were people working on being able to do that but I don't know where it ended up. As I learn more about horsemanship I became less interested in the use of the pads,as it seemed the information that could be gained was very limited and even those things that could be measured need to take into account the skill of the rider. I have been impressed by some of the things I have read coming out of the University researchers that did that article. They are some of the few researchers that are conscious of the immense role that the rider has in the process. Most saddle fitting research is really measuring the riders ability to govern the five essentials of riding. Considering that the serratus, Latissamus, trapezius, and the Rhomboids will all be directly affected by the riders ability to tension the dorsal ligament ,measureing anything in regard to saddle fit without using highly skilled riders and horses that are not in a pathological state means that the research is actually measuring is the effectiveness of the rider. Right now most of the research is just telling us very few people know how to ride anymore. Even further you see this trend among saddle professionals who are focusing their whole efforts on fitting pathological backs. Consider how pathological a back would need to be for people to conclude that they could roll a ball and it would go to the anticlinal vertebrae. The anticlinal vertebrae which is most often to be found at thoracic vertebrae 16 is designed by nature to be at the apex of the acute curve of the back.

David Genadek

David Genadek

Denise,

I wholeheartedly agree with what you've said I should have been more specific with my statement. The pressure pads in knowledgeable trained hands are surely a valuable although somewhat limited tool. However, used within the context of saddle fitting for hirer they become a gimmick.

I think it's also important to note that it was a technology that Ferrand invented for monitoring patients in hospital beds which he then tried to expand his market into saddle fitting. This is important to realize as its original purpose was that of taking measurements in a static system which is a far cry from the dynamic situation of saddle fitting. One of the limits of the systems in the past has been that they were unable to capture the data while the horse was moving. I know there were people working on being able to do that but I don't know where it ended up. As I learn more about horsemanship I became less interested in the use of the pads,as it seemed the information that could be gained was very limited and even those things that could be measured need to take into account the skill of the rider. I have been impressed by some of the things I have read coming out of the University researchers that did that article. They are some of the few researchers that are conscious of the immense role that the rider has in the process. Most saddle fitting research is really measuring the riders ability to govern the five essentials of riding. Considering that the serratus, Latissamus, trapezius, and the Rhomboids will all be directly affected by the riders ability to tension the dorsal ligament ,measureing anything in regard to saddle fit without using highly skilled riders and horses that are not in a pathological state means that the research is actually measuring is the effectiveness of the rider. Right now most of the research is just telling us very few people know how to ride anymore. Even further you see this trend among saddle professionals who are focusing their whole efforts on fitting pathological backs. Consider how pathological a back would need to be for people to conclude that they could roll a ball and it would go to the anticlinal vertebrae. The anticlinal vertebrae which is most often to be found at thoracic vertebrae 16 is designed by nature to be at the apex of the acute curve of the back.

David Genadek

David Genadek