Need Thoughts About Machine Repair

[spurdude101]

As some of you know I bought a typical GB2972 patcher.I only gave $250.00 for complete unit. Thought I was ahead of the game. started sewing and right off saw it had some problems with feeding and keeping stitch length. the clamp would not stay put and the lift would be too tight to raise. so I took it in to the Industrial sewing machine shop here in Denver. told the tech what I just told you and said go thru machine and set to factory specs. now it did sew, so I thought it can't be too far out of whack. I also told the guy to call if it was going to be more than a $100.00. no problem don't worry. 3 day later I get a call with "bad news" the needle bar is bent, so when you turn the butterfly to sew the needle hits the foot. well I didn't know this or I would have told him that too, as I didn't have machine but a week and never really tried to find all that was wrong with it. I figured take to the experts let them see what I got. well here's the problem : the guy tells me he has 5 hours labor into it and hasn't even fixed it yet! well thats $325.00 plus it's only a diagnosis. he did use some used parts at my request (needle bar) and I assume he fixed the walking foot feed/lift. so the bill is $421.00 total. my question is for you guys is; is 5 hours labor sound right? I mean this machine is fairly simple. I think I could strip it down and rebuild it in 5 hours! I would an Expert to sew for 15 minutes , figure out whats wrong, make the call and talk about options. so MY thoughts are 1.5 hours diagnostics, 2 hours to fix, 3.5 hours plus parts. so Am I off base here? tell me what you think, before I throw a fit. thanks

[anne newkold]

Anything that has to do with a sewing machine, best person to talk to about ANY kind of sewing machine is Steve. He knows the ins and out on everything from home machines to heavy duty leather machines. Even if you don't buy from him he know what he is talking about and how to service them! 1 866 962 9880 http://leathermachineco.com/

[Wizcrafts]

It doesn't matter what we think. You took the machine to a professional mechanic and he is going to charge what he thinks you can afford to pay. Some mechanics charge less than others, to diagnose. Your guy charges auto repair shop rates. I would have set a stop work price when I took it in, as you implied when you asked to be called if it was going to cost over $100. He should have stopped doing anything when he reached that point and called you to ask if you wanted him to continue.

To diagnose that problem required him to totally remove the needlebar and all that secures it. Allowing for an hour of basic investigation to get to that point, removing the affected parts should not have taken more than one hour tops. At that point he would know that the needlebar was bent and should have called you then. You would have owed for two hours diagnosis and could decide if you could afford to have him continue, based on the price to fix and reassemble it. Figure another hour, unless he had to hunt down the needlebar elsewhere, or disassemble another machine to get the part out. That may be why he is charging so much. Then add the cost of the replacement parts, which you haven't stated. I have to guess that he wants to get at least $50 to $75 for the needlebar.

You could try to negotiate a lower price for the diagnosis, since he got the repair job afterward. He probably doesn't want to own the machine if you can't afford the repair bill, but you never know. But, 5 hours labor for this particular problem is overkill. I'd say it should have been done in 3 hours. That's how long it would take me to diagnose that problem and remove the needlebar. But, as I said before, he probably didn't just have a spare bar laying around and must have had to disassemble a parts machine to get it out. It's like going to a junk yard for parts. The price is higher if they remove the parts for you.

[Wizcrafts]

I doubt that most sewing machine dealers would care to stay on the phone with somebody who didn't buy the machine from them, to diagnose such a problem. They would all tell you to ship it to them. Then, you would have their diagnosis time, their parts and reassembly charges, plus shipping two ways. You'd end up paying the same or higher price than this incident.

[Art]

Well, you told him $100, you told him to fix the needle bar so that should add and hour. So with parts, you should get out of there for around $200. So offer them that.

The patcher was a staple of the shoe repair industry up through the 1960s and declined as glues, synthetics, and cheap offshore shoes (that cost less to replace than to repair) took over the U.S. market. I don't know if I would want someone who was younger than 55 working on a seriously sick patcher.

As Ann has said, Steve and Tony are serious mechanics. They have a wealth of experience. While not the mainstay of that business, they can fix pretty much anything that wanders in there, and have fixed a few machines from other distributors just because they are nice folks.

Art

As some of you know I bought a typical GB2972 patcher.I only gave $250.00 for complete unit. Thought I was ahead of the game. started sewing and right off saw it had some problems with feeding and keeping stitch length. the clamp would not stay put and the lift would be too tight to raise. so I took it in to the Industrial sewing machine shop here in Denver. told the tech what I just told you and said go thru machine and set to factory specs. now it did sew, so I thought it can't be too far out of whack. I also told the guy to call if it was going to be more than a $100.00. no problem don't worry. 3 day later I get a call with "bad news" the needle bar is bent, so when you turn the butterfly to sew the needle hits the foot. well I didn't know this or I would have told him that too, as I didn't have machine but a week and never really tried to find all that was wrong with it. I figured take to the experts let them see what I got. well here's the problem : the guy tells me he has 5 hours labor into it and hasn't even fixed it yet! well thats $325.00 plus it's only a diagnosis. he did use some used parts at my request (needle bar) and I assume he fixed the walking foot feed/lift. so the bill is $421.00 total. my question is for you guys is; is 5 hours labor sound right? I mean this machine is fairly simple. I think I could strip it down and rebuild it in 5 hours! I would an Expert to sew for 15 minutes , figure out whats wrong, make the call and talk about options. so MY thoughts are 1.5 hours diagnostics, 2 hours to fix, 3.5 hours plus parts. so Am I off base here? tell me what you think, before I throw a fit. thanks

[spurdude101]

Well, you told him $100, you told him to fix the needle bar so that should add and hour. So with parts, you should get out of there for around $200. So offer them that.

The patcher was a staple of the shoe repair industry up through the 1960s and declined as glues, synthetics, and cheap offshore shoes (that cost less to replace than to repair) took over the U.S. market. I don't know if I would want someone who was younger than 55 working on a seriously sick patcher.

As Ann has said, Steve and Tony are serious mechanics. They have a wealth of experience. While not the mainstay of that business, they can fix pretty much anything that wanders in there, and have fixed a few machines from other distributors just because they are nice folks.

Art

[spurdude101]

Well thanks guys. your thoughts are middle of the road, as mine are. I don't want to be a cry baby or try to rip them off. I just want a fair deal. they are the only game in the Rocky Mnt region let alone the Denver market. thay have all the parts, threads and many new machines as well as used machines. so I don't want a bad relationship with them in fact the salesman and the parts guy are really nice people the tech is an old guy, I'm guessing over 65. so I think what I'll do is look at the invoice and see what it says. I'll take your comments about spare parts removal into account, and talk to the sales guy who I have a friendly thing going. he also is the head cheese front man, I think. I'll just be polite and run it by him as I did you guys and see what he thinks, and how much of a trade in he might give a year from now. but it is good to know what you guy's think about it should I feel mowed down. thanks Al

[Wizcrafts]

The most important thing that has yet to be discovered is if the machine is now working properly. If all of the previous problems are resolved and she gives you 5 stitches per inch on 4 to 5 oz leather, you should be happy. If you are also able to get that high price down, that will be a double blessing.

OTOH, if the maximum stitch length is very short on thin leather, only half the battle has been won.

[Art]

If the tech is 65 and been in the business for a long time, he will know that you never get a patcher to 100% no matter how long you piddle with it. If I can get 6spi consistently, I know I can get 7-10 and that is as good as it will get, or I would ever need. However, look at it this way, if you have a working machine for $400, plus the $200 you bought it for, that ain't bad. Given all the drawbacks to that type of machine, only it will do what it does, well maybe a McKay chain stitch, but they generally use bigger thread.

If you are a one man shop with machinery, you need to take some interest in being a mechanic. Also develop a relationship with a local machine dealer (a regular old home sewing dealer with a repair shop) who can order parts for you from superior or consew (their parts department has a new name now). Steve or Bob can probably help you with that too.

Art

Well thanks guys. your thoughts are middle of the road, as mine are. I don't want to be a cry baby or try to rip them off. I just want a fair deal. they are the only game in the Rocky Mnt region let alone the Denver market. thay have all the parts, threads and many new machines as well as used machines. so I don't want a bad relationship with them in fact the salesman and the parts guy are really nice people the tech is an old guy, I'm guessing over 65. so I think what I'll do is look at the invoice and see what it says. I'll take your comments about spare parts removal into account, and talk to the sales guy who I have a friendly thing going. he also is the head cheese front man, I think. I'll just be polite and run it by him as I did you guys and see what he thinks, and how much of a trade in he might give a year from now. but it is good to know what you guy's think about it should I feel mowed down. thanks Al

[spurdude101]

I thought I would update those who care just to show how this fiasco turned out. Living 55 miles away and not wanting to get there at lunch time I planned my day around picking up the machine. I arrived a 1 pm only to find a sign on the door "out to lunch, be back in 30 minutes". So, I strolled over to the service building where I found my machine sitting on a shelf and the tech guy seeing me comes walking over rolling his eys and shaking his head looking like the guy who just shot your bird dog and was going to blame it on the pheasant. " That machine is the biggest piece of junk!" you should sell it ASAP!" nice customer service opener I thought. I had to do this and that and no body told me what was wrong so I had to spend a lot of time figuring it out. OK, I want to see the invoice before I get into it, so back over the parts counter to pay and get paper work. sign still on door. At 2 pm I walked around to main enterance (place is set up like a car dealer) nice receptionist say's their in a meeting. don't know when they will be out. is there anyone who can help me? Sorry No! so I wait a while longer when I see my sales guy friend. I ask him what he thinks about the 5 hours labor, and he says talk to parts guy/cashier/owner, that tech guy is old and kinda slow, tell him and he'll adjust the bill for you. great. a few more minutes go by and I see them come out of the meeting and finally get my paper work and I ask parts guy/ owner if he can help me out. He say's " hey I just collect the money" take the paper work over and talk to the tech. What!? so now it's clear, the old circle game. so for at that point I just threw up my hands and paid the darn thing. $421.00. 5 hours labor and a new shuttle, a bell crank, a bobbin, and a couple of screws. no new or used needle bar. Tech gets my machine and starts going over how it wasn't a bent needle bar, but the plate on top that the needle bar rides in that was bent. he took it off and straightend it. repaced the $28.00 Bell crank, which fixed the feed problem. and said I needed a new shuttle because " I just couldn't get the thing to sew" That was $55.00. so how much time spent sewing at $65.00/hour, I don't know. an initial bad diagnosis at the same rate, and who knows. it does sew, and my stitch length seems Ok as does the feeding. so I feel kinda beat up. sorry for the long post, but I figured you guys might like a good laugh! I don't know if I'll go back. I was going to save up and buy a Highlead 2268 off of them, but now I might look elsewhere. thanks guys. Al

[Wizcrafts]

Wow! How not to run a business!

Glad you got it back in working condition.

[machinehead]

We have all been the victim of poor customer service a time or two, so if we are laughing hopefully it is with you and not at you. Just remember that there are many folks on this forum who have been there and done that and are more than willing to give you the benefit of their experience.