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Adler 205-370

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a have found a adler 205 for sale locally. it is a german made machine and looks nice in photos. question, is it any better than the 441 copies, it is about the same price as a new clone but i will probably have to put a dc motor on the adler i mainly make holsters and belts . old story new machine customer service warranty or older machine no warranty. thanks

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The Adler 205 is different than the Juki 441 or its clones. If I could go down the street and pick one up off the lawn on garbage day, wild horses wouldn't keep me away.

Of course, if there is something wrong with the Adler you will have to pay to ship it to a qualified mechanic. Adler parts are dear. Also, there is the spacer shims system to consider. Adler 204 and 205 machines (at least) have a spacer shim screwed into the shuttle housing. The shims have numbers corresponding to the perfect (and maximum) needle size. A #200 (25) needle and #200 shim are standard equipment. The purpose of the shim is to set the perfect distance between the descending needle and the pickup point. If you use a much smaller needle size than the shim in the shuttle, you may suffer skipped stitches, due to the eye of the needle being too far from the point. These shims are usually good for about three or four needle sizes down, but none above its number. That means that you could use a #21 or #22 needle without skipping stitches, but you could not install a #26 needle, unless you changed to a #220 shim.

In contrast, the 441 and its clones have a rotating tapered spacer that ensures that any size needle stays close to, but doesn't contact the point head on.

Another difference that bothers me about the 441 type machines is that the manual pressor foot lift lever is on the inside of the head, where it can be blocked by the work light or edge guide. The Adler manual lift lever is on the top left-rear of the head.

My perfect machine would be the Adler 205 top end and feed dog/throat plate, mated to a 441 shimless shuttle system. Hmmmmm

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a have found a adler 205 for sale locally. it is a german made machine and looks nice in photos. question, is it any better than the 441 copies, it is about the same price as a new clone but i will probably have to put a dc motor on the adler i mainly make holsters and belts . old story new machine customer service warranty or older machine no warranty. thanks

I go with Wiz.....I would never buy a clone.....they just not made that good, a Adler is well....a German quality product....there are Adlers around 50 years old and just work like a charm.....I don't think we will see any of these clones in fifty years!

Parts are more expensive, but they last much longer......if you find a used one for good money buy. it..by all means....try to sell a 5 year old clone and see what you get out of it....almost none!

Be aware, there are newer Adlers, made now in former Chechoslovakia....

And when you sew on an German Adler you need a room temperature dark beer beside you!!!.....on a clone that would be rice wine.......jukkkk...***:thumbsup:

Greetings

Jimbob

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The Adler 205 is different than the Juki 441 or its clones. If I could go down the street and pick one up off the lawn on garbage day, wild horses wouldn't keep me away.

Of course, if there is something wrong with the Adler you will have to pay to ship it to a qualified mechanic. Adler parts are dear. Also, there is the spacer shims system to consider. Adler 204 and 205 machines (at least) have a spacer shim screwed into the shuttle housing. The shims have numbers corresponding to the perfect (and maximum) needle size. A #200 (25) needle and #200 shim are standard equipment. The purpose of the shim is to set the perfect distance between the descending needle and the pickup point. If you use a much smaller needle size than the shim in the shuttle, you may suffer skipped stitches, due to the eye of the needle being too far from the point. These shims are usually good for about three or four needle sizes down, but none above its number. That means that you could use a #21 or #22 needle without skipping stitches, but you could not install a #26 needle, unless you changed to a #220 shim.

In contrast, the 441 and its clones have a rotating tapered spacer that ensures that any size needle stays close to, but doesn't contact the point head on.

Another difference that bothers me about the 441 type machines is that the manual pressor foot lift lever is on the inside of the head, where it can be blocked by the work light or edge guide. The Adler manual lift lever is on the top left-rear of the head.

My perfect machine would be the Adler 205 top end and feed dog/throat plate, mated to a 441 shimless shuttle system. Hmmmmm

I have an Adler (Durkopp Adler) and the shims are numbered 160,200,230and 250 but it only takes a couple of minutes to change them if I have to.

Tony.

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Don´t hesitate to buy an Adler !

I found a used 205-374 with a needle positioning system and I wouldn´t trade it for any leather sewing machine, original or clone.

It is the original "dream machine" !

/ Knut

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those 441 cobra clones seem to be made out of something not much stronger than hard lead, I ran 138 Kevlar top and bottom through mine making polyester slings. it destroyed the original bobbin case in twenty hours and cut (COMPLEETLY) threw the top eye before we finished the 15th one pound spool of Kevlar. In a commercial setting with hard thread stitching threw thick goods you will only get about 90 days at best and then it will be ready for the junk yard and don't ever try rebuilding one there just not worth it. Those chines clones are only for the hobbyist. It'aways the best value to buy used high quality sewing machines (Adler 205or Ferdco 900 bull or that big CONSEW but if you need to save money get a SINGER 45 there good up to about 1/2 inch or a singer 97-10

if you can find one. GERMAM-USA-JAPAN don't buy any machine from CHINA or INDIA

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I have a Cowboy 4500 and an Adler 205-370. The Cowboy was purchased from CowboyBob, the Adler I found on my local Craigslist. I find myself using the Cowboy about 90% of the time. The stitch quality is equal. The Cowboy is a little easier to thread, but the bobbin winder leaves a little to be desired. The Adler is definitely a heavier built machine and much smoother when stitching, but the area around where the stitching happens is just more "cluttered". The Cowboy is more open and roomy. I wouldn't hesitate to buy either. With a new 441 clone, you get a lifetime warranty. With a used Adler, you do not. I've had to buy a few Adler parts from Weaver's and they are not cheap. Just my $.02 after using both, if I were buying a new machine right now, money not being an object, I would buy a new 441 clone.

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I use a Chinese 441 Clone (a heavy duty one) to sew fire blankets. I use Kevlar thread and have higher wear on the thread path and sewing parts. I abuse the hell out of this machine and run it over 800 spm. I use the best Japanese parts for replacement (bobbin cases, shuttles, thread path parts, etc) and get close to the same service as original parts. Kevlar thread is quite abarasive and parts replacement is a fact of life independant of machine brand. I have a couple of Pfaff machines that do similar work on a smaller scale, they have the same problem with Kevlar thread. My heavy duty Highlead has been stroking along for 5 years now without a major problem other than Kevlar wear. Still very tight.

For custom leatherwork, a Chinese clone will probably outlast the owner. I know of 15 year 441 clones (Taiwan) that are still giving excellent service. I can personally speak to Cobra, old Artisan, Ferdco, and Cowboy machines; I haven't had my hands (or eyes even) on a Techsew, but others like them as well.

I like the Adler and Pfaff medium duty machines made in Germany or the Czech Republic. I wish Pfaff made a big stitcher. Parts are dear, but aftermarket are better and of similar quality. Metallurgy has advanced in the last 60 years.

For used machines, Pfaff, Adler, Elna, Bernina, and Singer (quality in order) are good bets, all brands had their classics that stood above the crowd, especially for our kind of work.

There was a time in the early '90s and before, that mainland Chinese castings were miserable. This has changed quite a bit and quite a few can be classified as good to very good. Taiwan castings have been excellent for many years now, their machine tools are quite competitive.

Art

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Hi All i am new to the forum,but I am a HUGE reader of all the excellent advice and amazing info that this forum puts out.

I have started making heavy canvas bags with leather handles and soon...leather bottoms.

I'm looking into purchasing an Adler 867,the only part that concerns me is if I need parts!

Since I'm a bit on the fussy side taking good care of any machine will be a high priority for me...

Any advice,any tips,precautions,warnings?

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29 minutes ago, SanderMiddel said:

Buy an Adler 205-370 and make it your dream machine.. 

worth all of it!

Adler discontinued the 205-370 in January of 2015, when they released the model 969 ECO. There are probably a few new 205s with some dealers around the World. But, most of the remaining stock has been sold. So, one would probably need to purchase a used machine. Adler replacement parts are extraordinarily expensive.

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I believe I saw that Adler you are talking about on the Craigslist out of OKC.  I suspect it might be a moccasin  machine and may or may not have a feed system if it is one.  Check it out closely.  Those adlers without a feed show up on EBay every once in a while.  I imagine some people are pretty sick of their purchase and soon!  The one I saw I think, if I remember right is a 205- something M.  If it is a regular 205-37 something, you will love it if it is not worn out and that would probably be caused by neglect.  HTH.

Edited by Ken Nelson

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I've been lucky to find a few Adlers (30-7, 120-2, 105-27) and a Pfaff 335-something, at prices I could afford and they are nicely made with good metallurgy, but I think that China and Taiwan are able to make excellent machines as well. There just has to be a customer who isn't always saying "cheaper, cheaper!"

To Wiz's point regarding Adler parts cost: I wanted a presser foot for my 105 and was quoted over $300. I made my own. If I needed a more complex part requiring tighter tolerances and precision grinding, I'd be in for a big expense.

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