Wet Moulding And Carving... In What Order And How Much Water?

[shagsj]

Hi all,

This is my first post here but I have been lurking learning all I can for a while. I have wet moulded leather stuff (pouch) and I have carved onto flat bits various things (designs etc onto coasters) but am at a loss as to how I would do these together.

For the wet moulded stuff I have always wet the leather then put on my last for a number of days till rock hard.

For carving the wetting of the leather hasn't been as thorough.

So I am unsure if I should do my carving first, then wet form the leather on the last (surely this would lose some of the crispness of the carving???) or if I should form on the last and then carve once it's on there and the leather has dried a small bit?

Hope this makes sense.

cheers,

J

[JLSleather]

As a rule, you're right. Once you start carving, you want to NOT re-wet the leather. This is not always possible, or practical, and you do what you have to do (pretty tough to carve on a formed holster).

For your carving, the moisture content is very important, but you cannot get it 'too' wet -- you'll just have to wait longer before you start carving. Where possible, you might form, then carve as the leather reaches the right 'humidity' for carving.

[shagsj]

Many thanks. Trick will be getting the timing right to carve. Thanks heaps.

[pete]

so....when making a fully tooled holster, for example, what DO you holster makers do to tool AND bone or mould a piece?

pete

[sonorabitandspur]

I don't know how others mold and tool leather. I did this on a set of saddle bags. I molded a front pocket which was stitched to the pocket front so I could keep small items separate and more accessable. I chose to cut the part out in a rough size and shape. Then dampen the leather, trace out my pattern carve and tool. I allow the piece to dry thouroghly, and then apply a thin coat of Neets Foot oil. Allow to sit to get full penetation into the tooling. This usually takes two or three days until none of the oil is left on the surface of the tooled leather. At this point I will wet the edges around the tooling with warm water, being very careful not to get water directly on the tooled portion. Then place it over the mold form and work it into shape and then put the press board over and clamp down. In 24 to 48 hours the leather should be thouroghly dry. Remove from the mold and apply stain then a light coat of oil. I'm sure there will be other opinions on this but this has always worked well for me. I have used this method several times and it has never failed to produce good results.

Edited March 13, 2016 by sonorabitandspur

[Dwight]

so....when making a fully tooled holster, for example, what DO you holster makers do to tool AND bone or mould a piece?

pete

Generally speaking, . . . it's pretty much an either / or situation.

Trying to tool a holster, . . . then come back and form it, . . . and add boning, . . . nahh, . . .

I'll tool the leather, . . . make the holster, . . . and dampen it just enough to form the general shape, . . . but boning lines and fancy add in's are above and beyond my expertise. But then again, . . . never been asked, . . . so that has worked out so far.

I did a rose pattern on a western six gun rig some time back, . . . tool, cut, sew, dampen, form, finish, . . . was kinda the progression, . . . turned out nice.

May God bless,

Dwight

[Boriqua]

I have this insane little system that works kinda ... but I will share and perhaps through your experiments you will have hints on how to make it better but here is what I do.

I get a fair amount of requests for all sorts of imagery on holsters in addition to doing basket weaves and so on. You are going to lose some detail when you wet mold but you can mitigate how much ... some.

I case and carve or stamp my piece. I let it dry completely .. at least 24 hours. I then do all my gluing and stitching. If I am going to dye the carved area I do it now and let it dry.

I have a large roasting pan and fill it with water. I take my stitched holster and I give it a quick 1-2 second dunk. I then stick it in a plastic zip lock freezer bag for about 25 minutes. I take it out and with a sponge I wet the back of the holster but not the front carved piece.I go out and punch my belt slots now since the wet leather accommodates the punch nicely at this stage and the slot comes out better than when i used to do it at the end. Getting my punch outside and all takes about 5-10 minutes. I come in and once again pass a sponge with some water on the back. I am not trying to soak it and you will have to play with how much because its impossible to explain. In the end I want my back to be a little more wet and pliable than my front. I then open up the holster with my specialized opening tool. "the handle of my plastic spatula" Being sure to open the back side a little more just by pulling at it more and forming it more with my spatula.

I then insert my gun. The front being dryer tends to flex much less and much of the form of the gun happens at the back. I Then do whatever boning I may do on the back side. At this point I am not doing it for aesthetics but just making sure I have as much leather to gun contact as possible on my finished product. I then take my thumbs and press in from the front and back into the trigger guard. Done

If it is an intricate carve with some spooning I may go in now that the gun is in it and touch up the spooning and small details. Right or wrong this is what I have come to after working at preserving carving and stamping over many years of trial and error. I am sure it can be improved but it works pretty well.

Edited March 15, 2016 by Boriqua

[BondoBobCustomSaddles]

Ok I might be all wet here, excuse the pun, and I am sure that if I am out there in left field, I'll hear about it, but; this is what I do. First it must be said that if I understand it correctly, "casing" is the process of wetting the leather thoroughly then keeping it wet for a period of time to let the fibers in the leather become more uniform in their direction. That being said, if that is true, then when I case a piece of leather for say a fork cover, and bring it to the dryness that I like to use to form it over the fork, I get it formed/stretched and set first, then let it dry. Once dry and fitted and actually glued and tacked in place for the last time, I let it dry. Now I don't think that the fibers are going to get all unraveled or what ever it is that they were before casing, so once dry and when I am ready to tool which is usually much further down the line in the saddle building, I wet (using a spray bottle) with a mixture of distilled water, mild dish soap, and Listerine. When it has dried to the level that I like to tool at I go at it. If I don't get it done in one sitting, I give it a spray and cover it with a plastic bag till I get back to it. This works for me. I think what I am saying is, once cased, always cased. This is what works for me. Here is are some pics done that way. One during the process and two finished.

Bob

Edited March 16, 2016 by BondoBobCustomSaddles

[Northmount]

These photos were taken in a saddle sales shop and show the difference between stamping before and after wet molding. They back up Bob's comments. If you don't want to loose definition, stamping has to be done after molding. Of course you can prove it to yourself by trying both ways.

Look at the swells versus the skirts in both saddles.

Tom

[sonorabitandspur]

No argument with what is preferred, tool after casing and shaping. What I am referring to is how to shape a hollow pocket/pouch that you want tooled. I personally felt my fully tooled saddlebags would be missing something with a plain pocket underneath the flap. (Everyone said,"well you can't see it when the flap is down anyway," but I like to do things a bit different and leaving it that way would bother me. ) So I tried a little thinking outside the norm (or box) I was prepared for a loss of definition in the tooling. I was surprised however that using the method I outlined in the previous post that loss of definition of the tooling was negligible to nonexistent. I believe this was for three basic reasons, 1) not allowing water to get on the tooled portion,(I do realize that moisture would wick into the underlying fibers, and might affect the tooling.) 2) treating the tooled area with Neet's Foot Oil, and allowing it time to fully penetrate into the leather under the tooling. 3) being very careful to not oversaturate the leather with water when preparing to form. (Using just enough dampness to form.)

I have a lousy cell phone camera and the photo is not the greatest, so it might be hard to see detail in the photo. In the end I was pleased with the results and have repeated this a number of times. The very first pocket was molded and then tooled on the form. I was very disappointed with the results because my mold block was too soft (even though it was old growth fir) and it was difficult to get good detail. That first one was immediatly discarded. So after thinking about it for awhile, I tried this method.

Edited March 17, 2016 by sonorabitandspur