New Dürkopp Adler 969 And 967 H Type Machines For X Heavy Work

[Constabulary]

I think for most leather workers this thing is too far away from realty. For sure a nice and well developed machine but I think less than 1% of the registered LW members can afford it or really have the need for such a machine.

But I´m sure some "machinesters" will buy one w/o even having the need. It´s the same with mountain bikes - some 250 lbs "bikers" have $15.000 bikes but they are unable to cycle up the hill.

[Trox]

The need is there but the funds aren't

[Trox]

I see that Andreas with Sieck international Germany sell this machine (new) for about half the price 7224,- US$ of what Weaver wants for it http://www.sieck.de/en/machines/sewing/new-saddlery-sewing-machines/details/5741/. It does not look to be a Eco model either, (I cannot tell the different between them by the subclass number). Anyway, this is a huge price difference. I do not remember the suggested retail price for it, I only knows its very expensive in Norway (like everything else around here).

However, a new 205-370 is around 5000 $, and this is twice the machine. I think they will begin to sell when the price comes down to a "normal" level, perhaps after a year or two. Somebody is taking a huge profit when its possible to sell them for 7000 $, thats for sure.

Tor

Edited July 4, 2015 by Trox

[Troy Burch]

When did the 205-370's get that cheap? Mine was $7,500 nearly 30 years ago.

[Trox]

When did the 205-370's get that cheap? Mine was $7,500 nearly 30 years ago.

My mistake, I guess that was to cheap. But that proves my point, 7000$ for the new 969 H is good price.

[Constabulary]

THATS pretty much a difference! $12.500 is probably the "be the first to own" price and I´m sure some will pay the price just to have it - same as with the Apple products or similar stuff - Ha ha!

Or maybe they have ordered and paid the machines when the € was high but now that the € is very low they have to ask that much - don`t know....

I`m sure these machines will not live as long as my Singer 133K3 from 1932. It will cost a month salary if you have to replace the electronics and several hundred $$ for the internal motor - not speaking of the accessories. But as a hobbyist I for sure have a different point of view.

Old Cast Iron Rocks

BTW - do these space ships take the same accessories as the 441 clones?

[Gregg From Keystone Sewing]

205 was selling here for just under $5,000USD street price with stand and motor setup. Again, this is history at this point.

205 was selling here for years for just under $5,000USD street price with stand and motor setup. Keep in mind, these were not German, but Czech Republic. Again, this is history at this point.

[Trox]

Every thing was better before, I have a old Adler class 5-27 from the 1930'ties who still is like new. However it's no point in making machines that last a 100 years, what will Gregg and the other dealer' live of then? I guess the sewing machine technology will move a little faster this century than the last. 50 years between every new model will be bad for business.

[Gregg From Keystone Sewing]

Every thing was better before, I have a old Adler class 5-27 from the 1930'ties who still is like new. However it's no point in making machines that last a 100 years, what will Gregg and the other dealer' live of then? I guess the sewing machine technology will move a little faster this century than the last. 50 years between every new model will be bad for business.

Interesting thoughts, and probably not unique to this message board. I have very little control as to how or where the equipment is made. Kind of like not having control of where Mercedes, BMW or Volvo manufacture their vehicles; nobody is asking my opinion.

If it were up to me, trust me, I would rather stand behind and warranty a quality made machine. Other dealers would as well who I have spoken with all feel the same way. Nobody want's to open a machine and have problems out of the box. And believe you me, nine out of ten times it's the dealer who gets left holding the bag when a new machine needs repairs direct from the factory.

It's just a fact that customers I speak with have decisions and choices to make; new Chinese vs used German or Japanese equipment that are in the same relative price range across many makes and models. Not to mention the fact that you can pretty much across the board get two Chinese machines, often good quality, for the price of one of the Japanese makes.

Hope this makes sense, and it's not much of a rant, as I explain this a lot to customers who walk in or that I speak with on the telephone.

[Uwe]

I appreciate old sewing machines designed and made by people who care about quality. Sewing machines are perhaps an exception in the industrial world because they are still usable and desirable after 50+ years. There is little else that endures like that in both usability and desirability. For daily use I want modern cars, airplanes, computers, phones, coffee machines, etc.

Chinese manufacturing is quite capable of producing stupendous quality like no one else can right now, but only if the right people are in charge of design and run the manufacturing and quality control operation (my iPhone comes to mind - try making that in North America right now - it would cost over $5,000 and be ready in about five years.)

If the wrong people run the operation you end up with a warehouse full of cracked-and-painted-over sewing machine castings, truckloads of 40-year-old occasionally frozen meat, dog food that kills dogs, and the like.

I'm willing to spend more on a quality product, but then I'm one of those weird Europeans. Most U.S. americans want "a washing machine" or "a dishwasher" and they generally don't care how it works or how it's made as long as it's cheap and works for a while. You get what you ask for, and what you pay for.

I'm glad Durkopp Adler created the 969 and I hope they sell a bunch of them. I also hope they work with manufacturers who deliver a quality product, regardless of where they are located. I want one just because it's so outrageous and shouldn't even exist. Alas, that USB port on the 969 will be pretty meaningless 50 years from now.

[shoepatcher]

Guys,

The Weaver price on the Eco 969 is $8195.00.US That is the price in their new 2015 catalogue. I think the Classic with all the toys is over $11,000.00.

Call Allen with any questions.

glenn

[Uwe]

Weaver posted a few new videos on youtube last week, including a nice overview of the Durkopp Adler 969 Eco:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kqHbL_47b0#t=24.306041

Edited March 1, 2016 by Uwe

[Singermania]

I'm interested in the needles this machine might use, I'm wondering now the machine is out and about does it use the 1000 needle and can they be had in leather point, and if so from whom??

[Uwe]

The Durkopp Adler H-Type machines can use both system 794 and system 1000 Needles.

The system 1000 Needles are only made by Schmetz as of right now. The 1000H versions are the fabric point needles. They have only one leather point version, the 1000Q, which has a square tip with four cutting edges for leather work. They are only available in sizes 250, 280, and 300.

The 1000 series has slightly shorter shank and thus a longer shaft, to allow for maximum material thickness without the thicker shank part penetrating the material.

All this is what the folks at the Durkopp Adler, Schmetz, and Groetz Beckerts stand just told me a few minutes ago. I just happen to be at the TexProcess sewing machinery trade show in Atlanta.

They also said the System 794 needles are a much better choice for leatherwork because of the large number of leather point versions that are available in that needle system, from both Schmetz and Groetz Beckert.

Edited May 5, 2016 by Uwe

[Singermania]

7 hours ago, Uwe said:

The Durkopp Adler H-Type machines can use both system 794 and system 1000 Needles.

The system 1000 Needles are only made by Schmetz as of right now. The 1000H versions are the fabric point needles. They have only one leather point version, the 1000Q, which has a square tip with four cutting edges for leather work. They are only available in sizes 250, 280, and 300.

The 1000 series has slightly shorter shank and thus a longer shaft, to allow for maximum material thickness without the thicker shank part penetrating the material.

All this is what the folks at the Durkopp Adler, Schmetz, and Groetz Beckerts stand just told me a few minutes ago. I just happen to be at the TexProcess sewing machinery trade show in Atlanta.

They also said the System 794 needles are a much better choice for leatherwork because of the large number of leather point versions that are available in that needle system, from both Schmetz and Groetz Beckert.

Hi Uwe, thanks for your help, the local Schmetz dealer here in Australia says the 2016 list only shows the 280 needle, I would really like to source the 250 needle in leather point that you mentioned.... how confident are you that Schmetz does the 250?  If you are pretty sure I'll go back to them and ask them to look a bit deeper.

[Uwe]

I'm only repeating what the Schmetz sales person told me at their booth earlier today. He was going by memory, and who knows what production runs they actually have nowadays.  I came across one other reference for the 1000 needles in a Consew brochure for their 733 series machine.

Special order may mean that you have to buy a couple thousand needles at a time to make it worth their while to fire up the production line.

 

 

Edited May 6, 2016 by Uwe

[GPaudler]

They showed that machine, and a very few others, at the Techtextil show in Houston several months ago, it's visually very impressive in-person. They weren't demonstrating the machines; just guys in suits standing around. I sort of recall a quoted price of $12,000. A colleague had attended Techtextil at Messe Frankfurt and had a great time so I was eager to attend the North American edition but was quite disappointed. It was a dinky show with very low energy and little of interest to me. 

It was combined in the same small exhibition hall with a small composites expo that was more interesting, especially the Swiss company Staubli's incredible Jacquard machines that can make inch-thick combinations of reinforcing yarns, like glass, carbon, aramid and polyolefin in complex arrays specifically designed to place carefully engineered reinforcement in a composite structure. Their display was back-to-back with the German company Dornier who showed some beautiful looms.

I went to the IFAI industrial fabrics show in Anaheim hoping to see lots of machines but it was also quite disappointing with very few sewing machines on display and very little new stuff.

[Kleofash]

Hello folks. 

I will revive this old thread a little bit. The 969 is still being made in Czech republic. I just ordered one. The delivery time is around 25 weeks at the moment!

[shoepatcher]

Good news.  Weaver Leather now has the 969 Pure out!! This is a stripped down 969 with large balance wheel, no air lift rather foot lift.  It is just like the 205 plane jane was but now it is the big brother.  I believe the price complete is $5895.00 if you set up an account with them.  So now the 969 Pure, the Eco and the Gold edition with all the toys.  3 price points  to choose from depending on money and needs.  

16.5" throat, self winding bobbin winder on front of machine, larger bobbin, one step oiling.  Higher lift, bigger stitch length than 205.  check it out.

glenn

[Trox]

On 5/11/2021 at 7:54 PM, shoepatcher said:

Good news.  Weaver Leather now has the 969 Pure out!! This is a stripped down 969 with large balance wheel, no air lift rather foot lift.  It is just like the 205 plane jane was but now it is the big brother.  I believe the price complete is $5895.00 if you set up an account with them.  So now the 969 Pure, the Eco and the Gold edition with all the toys.  3 price points  to choose from depending on money and needs.  

16.5" throat, self winding bobbin winder on front of machine, larger bobbin, one step oiling.  Higher lift, bigger stitch length than 205.  check it out.

glenn

6500 Euro with all the good stuff on it at sieck.de Germany. Machine without support, you can always get support from Dürkopp Adler.

[Trox]

On 5/11/2021 at 7:54 PM, shoepatcher said:

Good news.  Weaver Leather now has the 969 Pure out!! This is a stripped down 969 with large balance wheel, no air lift rather foot lift.  It is just like the 205 plane jane was but now it is the big brother.  I believe the price complete is $5895.00 if you set up an account with them.  So now the 969 Pure, the Eco and the Gold edition with all the toys.  3 price points  to choose from depending on money and needs.  

16.5" throat, self winding bobbin winder on front of machine, larger bobbin, one step oiling.  Higher lift, bigger stitch length than 205.  check it out.

glenn

6500 Euro with all the good stuff on it at sieck.de Germany. Machine without support, you can always get support from Dürkopp Adler.

[Kleofash]

Hello. Honestly, I doubt that it is brand new. The stand (table) is 100% not original. 

I just ordered a brand new one, with original foldable stand and some extras for 7280€ including transport and setup onsite.

[Trox]

I kind of went the other direction, from a 441 back 100 years to BUSM N⁰6.....the right direction by the way. Kept the 441, it has to many attachments not to be useful.

[Trox]

4 minutes ago, Kleofash said:

Hello. Honestly, I doubt that it is brand new. The stand (table) is 100% not original. 

I just ordered a brand new one, with original foldable stand and some extras for 7280€ including transport and setup onsite.

http://www.sieck.de/en/machines/sewing/arm-type-machines/?produkt=5656

When it says brand new, why wouldn't it be? That what Sieck does, they just sell machines cheap without investing much talk in to it. I've dealt with them several times, you get what is announced. But do not expect any support or answer to question's

[Kleofash]

Hello, 

I have 3 hints. 

1. "my" technician says from pictures, that is seems used (I cant tell as I cant spot any specific hints)

2. the price is not only cheap, but suspiciously cheap

3. I bought their "Sieck 441" - they said brand new, declared as brand new, but it was already used (for sure!). Maybe not for long time, but used.

 

I bought from them some items, and overall Im not satisfied. I would recommend them with lot of caution.