Doc Reaper Report post Posted June 24, 2014 I'm on the verge of buying a Cowboy 4500, is it a mistake or is it money well spent? I looked around and settled on the Cowboy 4500 because of its 7/8 inch capacity. Is my decision to purchase this machine a wise one or should I cancel it and get something else? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wizcrafts Report post Posted June 24, 2014 I use a CB4500 every day, in my shop. I can't imagine having anything shorter or less powerful. You will really appreciate the long arm if you start sewing long western gunbelts. I did one Monday that was over 5 feet long. I often flip these items around to back tack, so I can see the needle as it approaches the previous hole. It's hard to see this when sewing in reverse. It's an old habit I developed while sewing on Union Lockstitch machines, which don't have reverse. Earlier in the day I sewed a vinyl motorcycle seat to repair a rip in it. The total package with the inside patch was about 6 ounces. I used #207 thread on top and #138 in the bobbin, with a #23 Schmetz leather point needle. My machine is routinely used with thread sizes 138 through 277, with needle sizes 23 through 25. Occasionally I sew something huge with #346 thread, using a #26 needle. The thickest item was just under one inch. Bottom line is you will NOT regret buying a CB4500. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tree Reaper Report post Posted June 24, 2014 I have this machine, it's very versatile and dependable. It will require adjustment as will any other machine,don't freak out when it happens, just ask for help. I'm very happy with my CB4500. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Troy I Report post Posted June 24, 2014 I also have a 4500...good machine...as Tree Reaper said you will have to make some adjustments, as with all machines...One small bit of advice--when you get a thread jam or birds nest under your leather--DON'T just rip and pull the thread lose...take your time and free it without excessive force. I learned the hard way...you will knock the machine out of timing...then you will get to learn a lot more about the machine then you may want, this goes for all sewing machines...they are built like tanks, but treat them with respect and you will be happy for years to come...One other thing, keep them oiled...Oil is your friend. Just my 2 cents worth. Troy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Big Sioux Saddlery Report post Posted June 24, 2014 I bought one about a year and a half ago brand new after months of debate and driving hundreds of miles to look at a half wore out used adler. It all depends on what you want to do. I had a bunch of synthetic harness to build, and my other machines are either too slow (old Landis Ones) or hook and awl machines (Union Lock and Landis 16). So I bit the bullet and bought the Cowboy. One factor was definitely cost: the parts may not be the same quality as an Adler and it may not last as long, but I can wear out two Cowboys for the price of one Adler. There are things I like and dislike about the machine. I love the 16" throat. I love the Servo motor. Compared to my older machines, there is a minimum of adjusting needed. I do not like the wide foot. On my old harness machines, I can sew much closer to an edge, with a row of spots to the left of the foot. Yes I have the left and right toe feet, but there is still no comparison in how close I can get with the older machines. I hate the bobbin winder built into the machine. With a separate bobbin winder, if you need a bobbin wound, you just go wind one. Built in, you have to run the machine. If doing precise work, like sewing in old holes when re-lining a saddle skirt, or sewing in a groove, it is impossible to see the needle as it hits the leather due to the design of the center toe of the foot. With my old machines, I can see exactly where the needle hits, when it hits. You do get used to "sewing blind" and get a feel for where the needle is going to hit, but I still like the visibility the older machines give me. I think I can get my old machines to sew tighter than the Cowboy. I highly doubt that with daily use, the Cowboy will still be sewing in a hundred years, but that's the case with anything produced today, whether it's a sewing machine or a pickup. So in summary, I like it for the synthetics mostly because of the feed system, speed, and reverse feature (my first heavy stitcher with reverse) and speed. I love the degree of control I have with it with the Servo motor, but hate it for real picky precise work. It has the capability to sew harness tugs, but you can't channel the backside, and in my opinion, it doesn't pull the stitch tight enough on the back to leave it unprotected. This may leave you with more questions than answers, but feel free to ask away! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Big Sioux Saddlery Report post Posted June 24, 2014 "I love the degree of control I have with it with the Servo motor, but hate it for real picky precise work." To clarify, it's not the Servo motor I hate for picky, precise work, it's the machine, or more specifically, the foot. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BondoBobCustomSaddles Report post Posted June 24, 2014 I wouldn't be without mine! Bob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hockeymender Report post Posted June 24, 2014 Purchased a new CB4500 just a few weeks ago. After having used a 205 I wasn't sure how I would like this machine. After using it on several different applications in my shop, I can say that I like this machine more. I have more control, and with the 16" arm bulky items like arm and chest units, shoulder pads and pants are much easier to work on. I had it set up with the small left toe foot, and that foot arrangement allows me to get into places I could never get into with the 205. All in all, I think this was one of the best machinery purchases I have made. Just my two and a half cents. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SteelcityK9Cop Report post Posted June 24, 2014 I went back and forth for months about weather to buy a Tipman or spend the extra money on a Cowboy 4500. Lucky for me the forum existed and Wiz was kind enough to let me pick his brain. I decided to spend the extra and get the 4500. I got in contact with Cowboy Bob and he was extremely nice on the phone. I drove all the way out to his shop and he had one all ready to go for me. He took the time to show me the in's and out's of the machine and was a great guy to deal with. Many months later I needed some new thread and some different needles for my 4500.. I called Bob up and he took care of me and mailed them right out. Bob even took the time to make sure the machine was running well and that I wasn't having any issues with it. Bob also was able to get me a custom made stainless steel presser foot that I inquired about. Top-notch machine....top-notch service! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
earlthegoat2 Report post Posted June 25, 2014 (edited) I was asking about machines earlier to sew multiple layers of horse hide which is very tough. Wiz said to buy a 3500 or 4500 Cowboy and be done with it. No pressure or anything Wiz, but I am putting all my eggs in that basket and am saving for the Cowboy 4500. I could buy it now but Im having a car dilemma. Either way it will be in the next few months. I mainly decided on the 4500 over the 3500, 3200 or 227 because the added capacity for the small margin of price difference was a no brainer. Add to that, the 7/8" height of the 35/4500 over the 1/2" of the 227 was needed for some 3/4" thickness items I make. Not only do I have these horse hide projects that I do but I have also run into a small market of heavy canvas custom car seat covers that I have some commissions on. Luckily they are for a few months in the future so by the time I buy the CB4500 I will be using it for them. Edited June 25, 2014 by earlthegoat2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Doc Reaper Report post Posted June 27, 2014 Thanks for the input y'all! Bob let me know that my CB4500 will be delivered on the first of July 2014. I have used many lightweight sewing machines and got tired of hand sewing (been hand sewing since 1973 - it became old that same year). I will admit that hand stitching is always going to be a part of me, but a machine will be used to speed up the process! Anything hand sewn is guaranteed for life (theirs or mine, whichever comes first). I'll keep ya updated, now I have to make room so I can rock this new machine! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Big Sioux Saddlery Report post Posted June 27, 2014 Congratulations on your purchase! I think you will enjoy it overall. It will speed things up immensely. There will be a bit of a learning curve of course. There was for me and I've been sewing on heavy stitchers for over 20 years. Main thing is practice on scrap before you attempt good work. Keep it oiled as someone else mentioned above. Starting your first stitch, keep tension on both top and bottom thread or you will have problems. And have fun! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Doc Reaper Report post Posted July 2, 2014 Today is July 1st, 2014. I received shipment of my CB4500 and I'm impressed with it! I did have to do minor adjustments to it but I expected to do so. I have always held the string on all my previous machines, how do I make it so the stitching at the start so it won't become unraveled? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wizcrafts Report post Posted July 2, 2014 Today is July 1st, 2014. I received shipment of my CB4500 and I'm impressed with it! I did have to do minor adjustments to it but I expected to do so. I have always held the string on all my previous machines, how do I make it so the stitching at the start so it won't become unraveled? Holding both threads, or at least the top thread, I start sewing in reverse about 3 stitches (or about 1/2 inch) past the desired beginning position. I sew backwards, with the stitch lever up, until the needle is almost at the edge, then throw the lever down and stitch forward through the same holes. This locks the thread in place. Let go of the starting threads after you successfully cross back over them. Do the same at the end to lock the thread in place. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Doc Reaper Report post Posted July 2, 2014 Duh! Simple shhtuff! Thanks Wiz! What state ya in, I'm in NC Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Doc Reaper Report post Posted October 15, 2014 It's October 14th, the 4500 is great on the repairs I do for customers, repairs are my way of getting to know the machines temperment, if you haven't made a choice get the 4500! I have no prob with the tension of the stitches, I also glue all my seams before hand. I'm glad that I purchased the 4500, I'm also trying to open a 2nd leather shop where I will be manufacturing items. The 4500 really makes things easier, but hand sewing will also be used in my shop, it's a lifetime promise thing! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CowboyBob Report post Posted October 15, 2014 Hello Doc, Thanks for the update & it sounds like your keeping that Cowboy busy!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cleanview Report post Posted October 15, 2014 been thinking about a 4500 as well. What is the shipping charge on something like this? Really have no idea Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wizcrafts Report post Posted October 15, 2014 Call Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines and ask for a shipping charge quote based on your type of building and location. The number is 866-362-7397. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Colt W Knight Report post Posted October 15, 2014 You can get an exact quote from Toledo, but itll be about 200$. A little less you pick up at a shipping center, and more if you deliver to a residential address and need a lift gate to get it off the truck. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Doc Reaper Report post Posted October 15, 2014 Just get hold of Bob, he can give you an exact amount! The Cowboy 4500 is worth the money, stop buying used machines that need repairs, my next machine will come from Bob! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cleanview Report post Posted October 19, 2014 Oh Sorry FYI Bob messaged me the figures and then I called with another question. really good responses and help Good people Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cleanview Report post Posted November 13, 2014 got my cb3200 yesterday and once it is set up it is much easier than I thought. I have never used any type of sewing machine. SO far the only mystery is how to get back stitching to look better. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Doc Reaper Report post Posted June 29, 2016 (edited) It's two years later, haven't used the machine the way I wanted. Between black widow and brown recluse bites, the shop has become a scary place! Had my back fixed from an injury sustained in the Marine Corps 35 years ago, the VA said the pain was all in my head, jackasses! Now I injured a nerve that makes my left middle and ring fingers numb. The hides call to me, they want to be made into useful items! Replaced the bearings, also got another set as backups! Time to make some tool bags! Edited June 29, 2016 by Doc Reaper Added one word Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darren Brosowski Report post Posted July 5, 2016 Sorry to hear that Doc. A sewing machine is just another lump of metal unless you use it for its intended purpous.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
