Reinforcing Mouth Of Iwb Holster

[BHPshooter]

I got to chime in here and ask what is the purpose of one handed reholstering?...For anyone carrying inside the waistband, and yes, even in a law enforcement role, what purpose does it serve...if i have just pulled my gun on someone, i will not reholster it until the threat is no longer a threat...then i will reholster it with two hands, a trombone, a shoehorn and anything else i think i need to use..why, because the threat is no longer a threat...one handed reholstering, aka, "tactical reholstering", is a concept used and practiced by tactical units carrying outside the waistband, either for quick weapons transitions, or going hands on with a "live" threat..even then, they have a cover unit with a firearm still out and in the fight...ive been a cop for 20 years, and i have seen this mentality creep into the scene with much dismay....bottom line, "practics" or the practical application of equipment and personnel, will always beat tactics...maybe someday tacticool will grow up and be practicool....thus endeth my rant..lol..

I understand where you're coming from, but there are a lot of good reasons to be able to reholster one-handed.

You might have the other hand holding a phone to your ear while calling 911, or holding a child.

That, in my opinion, is all secondary to the fact that when using your off-hand to open up a collapsed holster, it is difficult (if not impossible) to avoid pointing the gun at your off-hand. Worse yet, some folks like to try to wedge the muzzle into the mouth of the holster and pry/twist/wiggle the gun into place, which frequently results in pointing the muzzle at your innards.

It's undeniably true that there is a tendency in the gun world to do things "because the Police/SWAT/SEALS/Arnold Schwarzenneger does it that way." However, that doesn't mean that those practices might apply to normal folks in some situations.

[asbandr]

Can anyone direct me to a video tutorial of someone using the flashing to reinforce the mouth of their holster?

[chiefjason]

I made one a while back with 2 strips of pallet strapping. The leather panel ran down the sight channel about 3/4 of the way down the slide. then it wrapped around to the top and up to just above the trigger. I ran one strip across the top of the slide from the rear sight area towards the trigger and T'd one off of it down the slide.

I think I could have stood on that holster. I don't make it a habit of pushing and bending holsters, but I could barely get the mouth to move. Customer requested it, I did it.

I don't do reinforcements normally unless it's an Avenger or single clip IWB and then it is just part of my design. Or by request.

[Matt Alsaker]

I got to chime in here and ask what is the purpose of one handed reholstering?...For anyone carrying inside the waistband, and yes, even in a law enforcement role, what purpose does it serve...if i have just pulled my gun on someone, i will not reholster it until the threat is no longer a threat...then i will reholster it with two hands, a trombone, a shoehorn and anything else i think i need to use..why, because the threat is no longer a threat...one handed reholstering, aka, "tactical reholstering", is a concept used and practiced by tactical units carrying outside the waistband, either for quick weapons transitions, or going hands on with a "live" threat..even then, they have a cover unit with a firearm still out and in the fight...ive been a cop for 20 years, and i have seen this mentality creep into the scene with much dismay....bottom line, "practics" or the practical application of equipment and personnel, will always beat tactics...maybe someday tacticool will grow up and be practicool....thus endeth my rant..lol..

Don....first, I love your work and thank you for your years of service. I'll hit my 20 years of LEO service in March. All I know is one handed holstering. From the first time out of the holster in the recruit academy until this day, that is all we've ever trained. The State's firearms training curriculum for all new officers and the annual certification only have one handed holstering. It's not just that special tactics guys that train for one handed holstering, it's all of us. As for the purpose of one handed holstering, I guess I was so excited as a young cop I never asked the instructors. However, my experience has been that threats change. I'm not talking about a situation where deadly force has been used and we are holding on a threat waiting for more help, that is still a threat. I'm referring to those situations where we are out of the holster believing there is a threat, but as the situation evolves / develops and as we gather more information we determine the use of deadly force is not justified. Some other level of force may be justified, hence wanting to keep our off-side hand free while holstering. I like being able to holster with one hand while keeping my off-side hand free and being able to keep my eyes down range.

There is more than one way to skin a cat (or holster a firearm). There are a lot of ideas about tactics and equipment out there, ask a cop and they will tell you, but my comfort level is with one handed holstering. That doesn't make it the right way, it just makes it the way that works for me. Take care of yourself brother, the world seems to have gone crazy.

Here's our State's student manual for the firearms stuff. I think they discuss the draw and holstering starting on page 35 (I got this with a quick internet search, so I'm not giving away anything Top Secret here).

http://ecampus.matc.edu/policetraining/Library/Required%20Reading/Firearms_Student_Text.pdf

[Matt Alsaker]

Can anyone direct me to a video tutorial of someone using the flashing to reinforce the mouth of their holster?

http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=22992

It's not a video, but has pretty good pictures. This is one way to do it. I do mine a little different, but the end result if the same. Install the stainless steel between the leather reinforcement piece and the holster leather. Once everything is glued and stitched, I bend the mouth of the holster by hand around the slide of the firearm. Final adjustments are done as I finish the holster.

[TwinOaks]

I've never had much issue with holsters closing up after the draw, and I don't use steel linings. What I've found is that in most cases, people who are experiencing holster collapse are doing it to themselves. After learning to make holsters, and using my prototypes as well as having some local LEOs test them, I started noticing a trend. People with cheap belts often had more holster closure than I did. So, I experimented. I went to a single layer belt and sure enough, I had to cinch it tighter to support the weapon. I tried wearing my rig with pants that were the right size for me (instead of a size larger)...yep, the holster closed up. I went back to my 'one-size-too-large' pants, and a double layer belt, and all of a sudden, all the problems went away. So, when I make make a holster, I try to sell the customer on a double layer, bonded and stitched "gun belt", citing the better support. I also tell them to either buy large, or lose weight. As long as there is room for the holster inside the waistband, and there is sufficient support....I've found that just a simple leather reinforcement is adequate to keep the holster open.

...and I just realized I never said what I was carrying - The first holsters I noticed this with were for a gov't model 1911 - steel frame. Then I swapped over to a compact M&P. Even with the wider slide/body of the compact, as long as I was properly supporting the rig and left room for it in my clothes....no issues.

[asbandr]

Thanks all for the input. I just bought more leather this week and decided to go up to almost 8 oz., so I'm curious to see how this does for holsters. I have about 7 holsters I need to hurry and finish for a local gun range but then I plan to mess around with my design and see if I can improve it.

[renegadelizard]

Don....first, I love your work and thank you for your years of service. I'll hit my 20 years of LEO service in March. All I know is one handed holstering. From the first time out of the holster in the recruit academy until this day, that is all we've ever trained. The State's firearms training curriculum for all new officers and the annual certification only have one handed holstering. It's not just that special tactics guys that train for one handed holstering, it's all of us. As for the purpose of one handed holstering, I guess I was so excited as a young cop I never asked the instructors. However, my experience has been that threats change. I'm not talking about a situation where deadly force has been used and we are holding on a threat waiting for more help, that is still a threat. I'm referring to those situations where we are out of the holster believing there is a threat, but as the situation evolves / develops and as we gather more information we determine the use of deadly force is not justified. Some other level of force may be justified, hence wanting to keep our off-side hand free while holstering. I like being able to holster with one hand while keeping my off-side hand free and being able to keep my eyes down range.

There is more than one way to skin a cat (or holster a firearm). There are a lot of ideas about tactics and equipment out there, ask a cop and they will tell you, but my comfort level is with one handed holstering. That doesn't make it the right way, it just makes it the way that works for me. Take care of yourself brother, the world seems to have gone crazy.

Here's our State's student manual for the firearms stuff. I think they discuss the draw and holstering starting on page 35 (I got this with a quick internet search, so I'm not giving away anything Top Secret here).

http://ecampus.matc.edu/policetraining/Library/Required%20Reading/Firearms_Student_Text.pdf

Hey Matt,

I get what you are saying, I do, and i think for LEO's one handed holstering is not a tactic, it is practical application of the tools were working with...a rigid holster on a gunbelt...duty gear that was made specificialy for open carry...what i was ranting about were these guys that want an IWB holster for a full sized sig with a p38 space modulator mounted on it, oh, and make sure it is reinforced so i can reholster it with one hand....

[malabar]

Renegade,

The simple answer is, that one-handed reholstering is taught at every competent defensive firearms school in the country.

I've been shooting pistols for 40 years. I've seen vast evolution of technique over that time period, largely because of the evolution of action pistol sports. Pistol technique is far more efficient and effective than it was when I was a kid.

I'm certified by multiple groups as a firearms instructor. I know of no school or agency that does not teach one-handed reholstering, and it has nothing to do with being "tacticool" -- it has to do with safety, speed and efficiency.

The most common self-inflicted gunshot injury occurs while drawing or reholstering. Having a rigid mouth on your holster minimizes the chances of snagging the trigger and ensures a smooth draw and easy reholstering. Using one hand eliminates the possibility of muzzling your support hand. It's a key part of an efficient system of safely drawing and engaging hostile targets with a sidearm. Skill with a sidearm requires significant practice, and there's a huge difference in practicing with a holster that has a rigid mouth.

There are about 10 times as many civilians out there with CCW permits as there are LEOs. If you're a civilian and you have the misfortune to have to lawfully shoot someone, then you do not want to be holding your pistol in hand when the police arrive, because you will immediately be identified as a threat.

tk

I got to chime in here and ask what is the purpose of one handed reholstering?...For anyone carrying inside the waistband, and yes, even in a law enforcement role, what purpose does it serve...if i have just pulled my gun on someone, i will not reholster it until the threat is no longer a threat...then i will reholster it with two hands, a trombone, a shoehorn and anything else i think i need to use..why, because the threat is no longer a threat...one handed reholstering, aka, "tactical reholstering", is a concept used and practiced by tactical units carrying outside the waistband, either for quick weapons transitions, or going hands on with a "live" threat..even then, they have a cover unit with a firearm still out and in the fight...ive been a cop for 20 years, and i have seen this mentality creep into the scene with much dismay....bottom line, "practics" or the practical application of equipment and personnel, will always beat tactics...maybe someday tacticool will grow up and be practicool....thus endeth my rant..lol..

[Red Cent]

Get a 1911. No trigger problems there:).

[malabar]

Red,

I'd like to agree with you, but.... ever seen the video of the fellow shooting himself in the leg with his 1911 as he videos a demonstration of proper shooting technique? No gun or holster is so good that a determined shooter can't injure himself.

This is the stuff I use....

http://www.uline.com/Product/Detail/S-825/Steel-Strapping/1-2-x-020-x-3087-Standard-Grade-Steel-Strapping

tk

Get a 1911. No trigger problems there:).

[Deanimator]

Regarding one handed holstering:

My first holster for my Glock 19 was a cheap Bianchi IWB. It was so flimsy that it was virtually impossible to holster with it while on my body. I was literally afraid that I might shoot myself struggling with it, especially if part of it managed to get into the trigger guard. Between that and the insanely aggressive belt clip which made it nearly impossible to put on or take off while my pants were on, I gave up after a couple of days and tossed it into a drawer. I replaced it with a Don Hume 715M until I learned to make my own holsters. I eventually disassembled it to learn how to properly attach a spring clip to my own holsters.

Every one of the tuckable IWBs I've made has had a reinforced top. They're all "envelope" types in which the tension of the reinforcement is more than sufficient to keep them open without any metal.

Alton "Good Eats" Brown wisely says that when you have to force dull kitchen knives, you get cut. Likewise, when you have to struggle excessively with a holster, your odds of an ND go up.

[Lobo]

Everything in holster design involves compromises among the 4 basic factors of comfort, accessibility, security, and concealment. When one factor is emphasized there will be compromises in the other factors. Only the individual can decide which factors are most important for his needs and how much compromise he is willing to accept in the other factors.

Holster mouth reinforcement addresses accessibility, i.e.: ease of drawing and holstering the handgun. Reinforcement necessarily adds bulk, with some degree of compromise in comfort and concealment.

IWB-style holsters in general are intended to emphasize concealment by keeping the bulk of the holstered handgun inside the trousers. Some people carry IWB all the time without problems, but many people cannot stand having the bulk of a holstered handgun inside the waistband for any length of time (I am one of those people). By adding the bulk of mouth reinforcement to the IWB-style holster we are reducing concealment (primary advantage of IWB carry) while aggravating the comfort issue (primary disadvantage of IWB carry).

All I can suggest is to make absolutely sure that the customer understands what to expect before accepting the order. So many are Holster Genius School graduates these days (meaning that they have read several gun magazines and an internet blog or two and now have some mental image of "THE PERFECT HOLSTER"). If you make exactly what they say they want, then it does not perform exactly as they dreamed it would, they will never remember that the bad idea was all theirs, but they will always remember that YOU failed to turn their dream into reality.

My approach to IWB holsters has been to maximize the advantage (concealment) while minimizing the disadvantage (comfort issues) by keeping the overall package as slim and trim as possible. Any time a customer expresses a concern for easy one-hand holstering I recommend that they consider any other type of holster than the IWB.

YMMV.

[JRP430]

On 10/25/2014 at 4:36 AM, renegadelizard said:

You have a bunch of people who attend these civilian on patrol type courses, and inevitably there is some swat guy teaching some portion of the class, and at some point tactics get brought up and the swat guy tells about his tactics and the civilian hears what he/she wants to hear...the next thing you know, you have a guy asking for a concealed carry IWB holster that will fit a full sized sig with a laser, flashlight combo, with a reinforced mouth so he can holster with one hand...because the swat guy said tactical reholstering was important....i guess im just getting old...little things like this really irk me...like quad rails on an ar 15...why, for the love of all things Holy, do you need 4 rails on a carbine...it looks about as cool as a cheese grater....anyway, two handed reholstering is when you have to use your non firing hand to assist in reholstering your firearm..

For what its worth I agree. The well made thicker owb's I have made have no issues when it comes to holstering a deployed pistol. And God forbid you deploy from an IWB, it is for a serious reason and the gun will stay out until responders have showed up. Perhaps looking at it in the terms of wearing a concealment holster for self defense and training with an OWB.

[Dwight]

A lot of my holster making techniques I learned from John Bianchi and Lobo . . . reading things they wrote . . . and looking at their designs.

As well . . . I would never sell anyone a holster that I thought would even conceivably necessitate 2 hand re-holstering. 

As well . . . I would laugh at myself and say that the Lone Ranger and Hoppalong Cassidy would both be disappointed in one of their fans if that was all I could make.

May God bless,

Dwight

[Lobo]

Idle thoughts from a really old guy who has been carrying daily for 52 years and was making holsters 49 years ago:

1. Metal is described by "gauge", a term generally referring to how many layers of a particular thickness will equal a total of one inch. 20 gauge metal is about 0.05" thickness, 10 gauge metal is about 0.10" thickness. "Gauge" and "millimeters" are not equivalent, or even within the same standards of measurement.

2. Everything in holster design involves compromises among the 4 basic factors of comfort, accessibility, security, and concealment. Whenever one factor is emphasized there will be compromises among the other factors.

3. IWB-style holsters tend to emphasize concealment by keeping the bulk of the holstered handgun inside the waistband. Security is also emphasized by applied pressures exerted on the holster between body and waistband/belt. The compromises necessarily fall on accessibility (limited by close contact with body and clothing) and comfort (many people cannot tolerate the bulk of holstered handgun inside the waistband for extended periods of time).

4. Reinforcement of the holster mouth area (whether by leather, metal, or other materials) requires increasing bulk, further aggravating comfort and to some degree affecting concealment. Short version: this is the quickest method known for overcoming any advantage of IWB-style carry.

5. For customers demanding ease of one-handed reholstering my first response has always been to choose just about any holster type except IWB-style.

6. Although I have been fully retired for nearly 6 years now, I am sure that the Holster Genius Academy continues to graduate another class every week or so, each of whom believes they have an idea in mind for the "perfect holster". A few of them are trying to make it themselves, but most are looking for someone to turn their dreams into reality. A very few will break new ground and create useful improvements in holster design or production methods. Those who convince a holster maker to take on their projects will probably never remember that the stupid ideas were their own, but they will always remember the dumb-azz holster maker who failed to make their stupid ideas work as they thought they should.

By the way, the requirements for graduating Holster Genius Academy include reading two or more popular gun magazines or at least 5 internet forum posts. Diplomas provided upon request and proof of performance.

Smile! I'm not really all that smart!