Eco-Flow Waterstain Mishap And Lesson Learned

[alfredleatherworks]

I was using Eco-Flow Waterstain (green and blue) to color the knotwork on a belt I've been working on for a customer. After finishing the hand-painting with the colors I applied Eco-Flow Super Sheen Leather Finish to protect the colors before applying the black for the background. Apparently, unlike using other dyes, the Waterstain covered over everything. Including the "protected" colors. It soaked into the entire belt and effectively wasted hours worth of work.

My plan to fix this is to use Kova Colors to paint over top of the black. I thought that for anyone who doesn't already know, "resisting" techniques do not seem to work with Eco-Flow Waterstain. Unless I'm doing it completely wrong, in which case I'll be happy to learn the right way. I'm a bit sad though, as I was nearly done with the belt before this happened.

[Chief31794]

How long did you let the resist dry. A minimum of 12 hours and even better at 24 is normal. If you put a stain on before the resist is totally dry, it won't resist. But if it is completely dry, it should block the stain. There are a lot better resists than super sheen, it is probably the very lowest quality resist available, just my opinion, I wouldn't put Super Sheen on anything, particularly as a resist.

Chief

Edited February 2, 2015 by Chief31794

[alfredleatherworks]

Chief,

Thanks for the info on the Super Sheen. It's the only thing I have at the moment but I'm willing to try something different if you've got a suggestion. I decided to do the whole belt over instead of using Kova Colors to repaint it. It will be a better product for having started over, though it's a bigger set-back than I would like to deal with right now. But I want to do this right, so starting over is the best option.

I did not let the sheen dry for 12 hours, I thought 4 would be sufficient. I was wrong. Do you think that a better resist protector that would work with Waterstain? The manager at my local Tandy recommended that I use the black gel antique, saying in her opinion it would work with the resist technique better than the Waterstain. I'm used to doing single-color projects really, and this multi-color thing is throwing me for a loop. Advice of any kind is much appreciated!

[Troy Burch]

In my experences Saddle Lac is by far the best, I use the spray can and spray two light coats about 30 minutes apart and let cure over night. I was using top coat but it's not much better than super sheen and it will give what you want resisted a slight yellowish brown tint. I use tan antique gel alot works great.

Edited February 2, 2015 by Troy Burch

[NVLeatherWorx]

If you are just trying to resist the colored/specific detail areas then spraying the entire project with a resist becomes counter-productive. However, another great resist is Clear-Lac (available from LCI and Springfield Leather) which we all know as Neat-Lac (at least if you have been doing for a long time). It is a spirit based product that seals very well but you need to let it set for at 24 hours as well (as you should do with all resists or even as a finish).

It is better when doing resists that you use either an antique or a light stain but if you have the resist dry properly (and for the time indicated) you should have no issues. The biggest issues that seem to be talked about are regarding color bleed; if the project has not been over oiled, has been properly stained/dyed (which includes 24 hour dry/cure time and proper buffing), and then allowed to properly dry/cure after applying your top sealer then you should not see any issues (and that pretty much goes with any product). I add an extra step of buffing my dyed/stained project after it has set for 24 hours with a damp cloth which helps trap that extra pigment that you don't get with a dry cloth. Once I am finished I let it dry for 12 hours before I go to the next step. One other thing to remember is that if you oil your projects then you need to let the oil cure for 24 hours as well and try to refrain from using any finishes that include oils or heavy waxes/conditioners as they are just adding oil to the oil level which can also result in color bleed.

As with everything new that you try, try it on a practice piece of leather first (or a project that has already found the scrap bin because of a mistake; who knows, it might turn out okay once colored) to make sure that you get the results you are looking for and that you can get the feel for the techniques required to achieve your look.

[alfredleatherworks]

Thanks, NV! Your explanation of things fits with what I am trying to do. I have two pieces of Celtic knotwork twisted together that are each a separate color, and then a solid black background. It's why I was trying to do a resist in the first place, because I was trying to not have to hand-paint the entire project...I'm trying to find that nice balance between time required and quality of product. I'll have to see if I can get ahold of some Clear-Lac and see how it works with my new attempt.

[Troy Burch]

You said you have a local Tandy store, you can save shipping cost buying saddle lac there it also comes in liquid form. Saddle lac and clear lac are the same thing as the old neat lac, just sold under different brand names.

[alfredleatherworks]

Cool! I hadn't seen it on the shelves there, but I'll go have a look again.

[terrymac]

Sorry gang, Saddlelac and Neatlac are two different animals, unless Saddlelac has changed their product. I only use Clearlac in the pourable form. Neatlac used to be available as a spray, but people had problems. When the Eco antiques firts came out, I tried using them along with Clearlac as a resist. Got the ugliest bunch of colors you ever saw. Ended up throwing them all away. Fiebing antique pastes work well with Clearly.

Terry

[texback]

Alfred, the Tandy on Mobud has the spray saddlelac I know, tho I don't recall if they had it in liquid form. Not positive but I believe the other one on Walzem does too.

[NVLeatherWorx]

I have to agree with texback, I have never seen anything other than the spray saddle lac with Tandy. That is why I buy a quart of Clear-Lac and use it. I have used it with the Eco-Flo Antique's before without any issue but I am not a fan of the eco stuff as there is a high level of rub-off, bleed, etc. depending on which finish you use and I have been using the Fiebing's product line since I started with leather in the 70's and know exactly how it reacts with the finishes and what you can do with it. Guess you can say that I going with the old saying, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".

[Chief31794]

I don't recall ever seeing any liquid Saddle Lac, I am confused about it being the same as clear lac, clear lac is the exact same as the old neat lac, is made by LCI. I have used it or Neat Lac almost exclusively for a long, long, time, and I never have any issues with it not protecting or resisting. I highly recommend Clear Lac. I do use Angelus finish from time to time on some applications, but not very often.

Chief

[terrymac]

Saddlelac is a Fiebings product. I will add that Clearlac works as a finish over the Ecoflo products. I agree with Nev, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Terry

Edited February 4, 2015 by terrymac

[NVLeatherWorx]

And Chief is exactly correct. Saddle Lac is a Fiebing's product (and always has been) while the Clear-Lac is the exact same formula as the original Neat-Lac was (guess because it is the same manufacturer who, by the way, also markets it under the name of Wyo-Sheen I believe) and that product works just as well today as it did in 1974. I use it for top finish, resist, and just about everything else it can be used for. Great product and you won't disappointed.

[Troy Burch]

I looked on Tandy's website and couldn't find anything but the saddle lac spray, which I was told took the place of neat lac spray and was basically the same thing (they're both lacquer finishes). I couldn't find any liquid lacquer product at all. I'll look in my shop tomorrow and see for sure what it is. I used neat lac for years and really liked it but I can't tell any difference in the two. Long story short any laquer finish will work good.