What's A Leather Artist?

[JLSleather]

Does one become a Maker by simply placing a "Makers mark" stamp on your craft items? I have seen many basic good quality holsters made from patterns with a nice makers marks stamped on them.

I would like to understand what this "Makers" stamp represents as I started using one simply to identify the items I am making. If the stamp represents a higher level of skill that I have not learned or earned yet then I will stop using it.

A word about "custom". It's true that MANY (MANY MANY) projects have been made from someone's pattern. Probably most of us who have ever made a holster have made at least one from Stohlman's 'holsters' book. It's apparently NOT just buying the tools and a "mark", or they'd all look alike.

So, when is it "custom"? I see it ALL the time. "Custom" leather - made from a pattern (stencil, template, whatever). Available in black OR brown. Apparently, the color choice is what makes it "custom" (or if you REAL fancy, call it Kustom). Always reminds me of the Blues Brothers.. what kinda music ya got? Oh, we got BOTH kinds.. country AND western.

Now, seriously ... if 100 of us download a pattern. Pattern says make this holster outta 8/9 oz leather.

So, we each git our thread, stitch down the sewing lines, edge and burnish and dip in a bucket o' Fiebings dye. Black OR brown, or maybe even go ALL out and git some green. What the hay.. go nuts and spend the extra 15 seconds to spray a "fade" on the edge, so you got black AND brown

Question then is, if 100 of us all make a holster out of Hermann Oak leather, stitch it with nylon thread, dip it in Fiebing's dye... WHERE THEN is the custom? If that's as "custom" as it gets, then I can get the same thing at any of several holster manufacturers done just as well (often better) for considerably less money. They're doing the same thing, they're just doing much more efficiently than a "maker" who does this.

So, where does the value come from? If the stitches don't fray or come out, does it MATTER how they were put in? If a guy pays $9 / ft for leather, and another guy pays $6.50/ft for the SAME leather because he buys large quantities, does the holster made by the first guy become 'more valuable'?

Some will say it's the time involved. But, if my car breaks down, and I WALK to the store to get the leather, is the finished product then more valuable, because there's time invested in it? Or am I simply not taking care of what i should be to make a quality product in decent time?

You can answer this (I think) from numerous LW posts. A guy 'justifies' higher pricing because his are all "hand stitched'. Some where along there, he / she buys a 441 (ish) machine -- but instead of a price drop, there's a new story about responsible business people maintaining equipment

So, put ALL this in the 'marketing BS' category and not in a conversation about art (or custom).

Leather workers should absolutely NOT be 'hooked on' patterns. See a design you liked, get an idea from something, maybe learn a principle of construction -- then put your own spin on it.

[DoubleC]

I don't know where this got into a subject about custom, but if someone downloads a holster pattern, or buys blue guns or whatever, and makes them over and over where they [ut a flower on one and a donkey on he next it's not custom. It ain't art either. Holsters would be a tough category to get art in and I've only seen maybe 10 people that could do it. You can't change the pattern or 'design' of the holster so what do you change? I've seen Sheridan carved holsters I would call art and I don't even like Sheridan style very much. I've seen some gorgeous holster done on here by Katsass that were inlaid and could hang in a frame. They weren't dip dyed and they weren't plain. It wasn't because his hand stitching is perfect, or the shape of the inlay, or what the inlay was, or even if there was one. Itt was all these things that added up to something that could hang on a wall, although they were made to use. If I make 20 belts and they all want initials on it, it's not what what a LW would consider custom or art. It is a custom order ONLY because a (custom)er asked me to do it. It's not art. Art stretches you, makes you make mistakes, redesign, try things Makes you cry in frustration and laugh in joy when it comes out exactly as you imagined it. Art doesn't use a template, art using a mind. If you use a template or 15 of them to arrive at what your mind MADE you make, and it is a physical urge, to come up with a piece it doesn't matter about the templates or how many you used. An artist is someone driven to create things, not because they might sell or they are in style but because you simply can't rest until it's done.

I had one more thing to add. Very few of us get to create art because we're too busy doing (custom)er orders.

[DoubleC]

Chris in reference to you maker's mark question, anyone can be a maker. So might as well mark it if you're proud of it or in my case remember to. If you make it you are a maker. Coach may be a producer but to mark it is ridiculous because they don't make anything, their assembly line type factories do.

[wantedleatherworks]

I know this is an older thread but i want to chime in. i am an artist and my current medium is leather. an artist creates images that are pleasing to the eye, period, whichever eye is willing to enjoy the creation. here are some of my latest leather art creations. The Sugar Skull was for a wallet and the Mermaid is on a 3 leg tripod Fishing Chair

[Reegesc]

@Wanted -- I'm a designer and think in those terms as well. For me, it's all about creating beautiful things, things that are pleasing to the eye. I have my own biases as to what constitutes art and artist, but also know as you suggest that objective standards do not apply to subjective experience.

Many years ago an artist friend of mine had returned back to Dallas after getting an out-of-state BA in Fine Arts and we were debating this very topic, what qualifies as art and what are the requirements necessary to be considered a legitimate artist? I argued the conservative view that if one had not studied the craft and put in the time and created the output and mastered certain skills that they really didn't qualify as an "artist". I used the example of Picasso, whom I don't care for at all, as someone who did the apprenticeship and had the qualifications and that legitimized his cubism work as serious art versus [insert your favorite art dupe].

My friend disagreed completely, that there was no criteria for being an artist other than the desire to create beauty and who is to say what is beautiful? Art is fundamental and all humans have an innate ability to create art. He argued that his degree didn't make him an artist, he already was one, it just exposed him to a myriad of mediums and techniques. He agreed that there is such a thing as good art and excellent art and freaking amazing art and that there was bad art and dupe art. BUT, it was all subjective.

Of course the debate went nowhere, which is no reason to not continue debating when you like to debate which we both did.

Finally my friend said that he had real life example to prove his point. Before he showed it to me he made me swear that I would be honest in my assessment. I said I would. Before he showed me his example he described that it was a project for a photography class. The students were instructed to go outside, gather some objects, anything, then return and photograph them. He said some chose litter, some chose plant material, he chose some ordinary rocks as his subject. Smooth, roundish rocks, but ordinary rocks, around ten or so ranging in size from a basketball down to the size of a golf ball. I'm thinking to myself, "This is gonna be an easy one. Uh, no....pictures of rocks you found out in the woods behind the parking lot is not gonna be art".

Then he showed me the photographs, dozens of them. I was floored. They were beautiful. He arranged them this way, and that way, with sharp contrasts and long shadows and depth of field and on and on and he explained the feeling he was trying to evoke using different exposures yada yada.

I had to admit, he was right. What exactly he was right about, I'm not sure, but he was right.

===============

Those two pieces of yours are amazing.

Edited August 13, 2015 by cseeger

[club49]

WHEN YOU SEE ART YOU KNOW IT.

[Reegesc]

The Aesthetic Brain: Why The Brain Likes Beauty

Edited September 24, 2015 by cseeger

[Studio-N]

Definition of a full time artist: "someone who's spouse works"

Never forgot that line.

[Oldtoolsniper]

So here I am contemplating art. Is it art or is it just marketing? Is art defined by it's perceived value? The higher the price tag the more artistic the item is? Who sets that value or the price tag.

Away from art but the point is here. Is it really just marketing?

A nylon bag with plastic boxes for bass lures made by Plano $30-$70 or so. It's for bass fishing so it's not an elitist type sport.

A nylon bag with plastic boxes for for fly fishing but we call it a boat bag. It's for fly fishing it sells for around $230 but does the same thing. It's made in China but the marketing campaign is very well done.

They both do the same thing, the difference is in the marketing.

Is the difference between a leather artist and a leather worker marketing?

Edited September 25, 2015 by Oldtoolsniper

[dirtclod]

IMHO a Artist is what a lot of people think they are !! But very few are really a Artist or ever will be. To me it's just the people that become Master leather workers ( in their minds ) in less than a year and they sure will tell you they are a Master leather worker !! It amazes me the number of people that become Masters ( in their mind ) within a year or less !! Then theirs the Master leather workers ( year or less ) that are all the time asking how do i make this or how do i do this. Everytime i read something like that i think to myself YOUR THE MASTER FIGURE IT OUT !!!! After all your a Master !!! No i'm not a Master leather worker not even close, and i have sense enough to know it !!

[Reegesc]

Gaze into thy navel, and profound you will be...

[dirtclod]

Gaze into thy navel, and profound you will be...

I'm pretty slow I guess, but what does that mean ?

[Reegesc]

It means it's a philosophical argument and adding extra exclamation points doesn't make it objective. Just means you're emotional.

"I'm old enough to know that i don't know everything." At least you got that right.

Edited September 25, 2015 by cseeger

[dirtclod]

Boy do i feel lucky !! I have been pulled over by the Grammer Police.

You bet i am old enough to know that i don't know everything !

Are you old enough to know that you don't know everything ? Of do you have a few years to go before you get there ?

[Reegesc]

"Boy do i feel lucky !!" Good, glad to help, cowboy.

[dirtclod]

No cowboys here just a poor man with a dog.

Sense you put it in bold letters. Are you old enough to know that you don't know everything ? Or do you have a few years to go before you know that ?

[Reegesc]

Ok old timer. Since you gotta dog...I'll let it go and have no retort. You win.

Goddammit, always frickin lose when a dog is involved...

Edited September 25, 2015 by cseeger

[dirtclod]

I didn't say anything about being a old timer. What i said was i was old enough to know that i don't everything. Figured that out about 20 or so years ago. Sense you still haven't answered that question i guess you still have some time to go.

[Reegesc]

hahahaha -- just won't let it go will ya, even after surrender. Ok, yeah, I'm most certainly old enough to know what I don't know. I've often said and believe that you are as smart as you will ever be when you're 15 years old. At that age, you know it all and it's just down hill from there.

I'm 58 years old, just turned last week. I have a hip replacement surgery scheduled in six weeks. Yeah, I'm old enough and then some.

Oh, and a dog lover too.

You have yourself a good life now, ya hear? And just remember, this is all an illusion. None of this is real...you don't even exist.

Edited September 25, 2015 by cseeger

[Colt W Knight]

I wish I was an artist. I am extremely jealous of folks who have the skill and talent to draw and create unique pieces. I consider myself more of a mechanic/fabricator.

[Reegesc]

Hi Monica

[MonicaJacobson]

lol, saw me, huh? I was all over the fun debate.

[Doc Reaper]

Ok I just read this "what is art" and I'm here to fix it for everybody! Leather worker sounds manly. In days gone by where you had blacksmiths and carpenters, and farmhands that knew all kinds of macho shhtuff! Leather worker seems to fit in amongst all that testosterone. Leather workers also had the vats to tan hides whereas the normal city did not. Leather artist also sounds kinda danty like! Are you gonna name your dog Prince or are you gonna name him duke?

[Martyn]

This thread jumps ahead of itself. It asks the question "is leathercraft art?". But before you can answer that, you first have to get a consensus on the definition of 'art'.

Good luck with that. :D

I remember talking to an engraver about engraving some knife bolsters. He was at the top of his game and charged something like $200 per square inch. The subject of art came up and he said "if you are selling what you do by the square inch, it aint art, it's work!".

Edited March 23, 2016 by Martyn