Super Shene Problems

[indidana]

I use super shene as a protective top coat. My issue is that it "erases" the stain. It picks up dyes and stains so that it's not in the cuts and tool marks anymore. I just spent a couple hours dying an owl to perfection, then stained the background and used super shene as the top coat and it not only removed the stain from the tool marks in the background, it removed dye that I had put three layers of super shene on to avoid this problem. Needless to say, it looks like a child made it.

[Colt W Knight]

Wipe another coat of antique on top of the super shene to see if that helps.

How thick did you apply the clear coat?

Edited September 3, 2015 by Colt W Knight

[indidana]

I didn't use antique, just hi-life stain. Won't I just end up with the same problem with the second coat of color when I apply super shene to it? Not only that but I dyed an owl, flower and leaves; one coat of stain messed them up more than I'd like, two would ruin them. I feel like I'm doing something wrong there.

I poured a little super shene on a sponge and applied a thin layer because I knew it was going to take some dye off. I didn't even bother with a second coat, I just washed the entire thing and started over.

I'm waiting on a shipment of supplies to come in. I got acrylic resolene. Is it as good as everyone says?

[Colt W Knight]

Wiping on a clear coat you will almost always have problems with smearing or smudging.

The safest way to approach it is to apply your stains and dyes, let it dry thoroughly ( about a day) then spray on light coats of the clear.

If you are using Tandy brand leather finishes - In my opinion the vast majority of them suck. The antique gels are okay. I like to use Fiebings for dyes and I use water based acrylic paints to add color other than black or brown. I use an air brush to apply dyes and clear coats. Eliminates the extra darkening from dauber application of dye and prevents smearing and smudging when applying the clear.

If you are applying a water based stain or dye - a water based clear coat will dissolve the stain or dye. Always test on scrap to get an idea how a combo of products will work.

Acrylic Resolene works just fine, but it will work a lot better if you thin it 50/50 with water and spray it on. You will struggle just wiping it on. I use Mop n glo, which is very similar to acrylic resolene.

Edited September 3, 2015 by Colt W Knight

[indidana]

Thank you for all the tips! I had a feeling tandy's water based products weren't very good but haven't looked around for anything else yet.

[Colt W Knight]

Paints, dyes, and stains are essentially made up of 1)pigment 2) binders and 3)thinner

Pigments are the colors

binders fix the pigment into place

thinners are what hold the pigment and binders in solution

Dyes and stains typically do have any kind of chemical curing that fixes them into place. Dyes are typically alcohol or water based, and the water absorbs into the substrate and carry the dye with them. Stains do not penetrate as much, and sit on the surface.

Paints and clears come in water based, spirit based(alcohol), lacquer bases ( uses acetone as a thinner) and oil based ( uses mineral spirits as a thinner). Some of these finishes have chemicals in them that make them cure chemically. Some finishes ( like lacquer or shellac) are evaporative finishes. They do not cure chemically. The thinner simply evaporates. Evaporative finishes can be stripped or recoated easily because the thinner in the new finish reactivates the old finish and makes it go into solution again. This is why wiping on a lot a leather finishes will result in streaking or smearing.

Edited September 3, 2015 by Colt W Knight

[indidana]

This is the owl. I dyed and stained it, one coat of super shene then washed it off as much as I could with a wet sponge. The owl has a second coat of dye, no second coat of stain yet. I'm going to stain it tomorrow then try acrylic resolene on it. What's the best way to stain it without ruining the owl and flower /leaves ?

Edited September 3, 2015 by indidana

[Colt W Knight]

Can you post a picture?

[indidana]

I did, I don't know why it won't show. It's there when I edit the post.

[Wild Bill46]

Just A Thank You to Colt For your answer here.

All this is in my head from years of Sign lettering,

but I could not get it out so clearly, good job !

Thanks my friend ! ------ Wild Bill46

[Colt W Knight]

I am having a little trouble following your process.

Why did you apply super sheene, then wipe it off with a wet sponge?

Here is how I do it

1). Case the leather - while its wet I give it a once over with saddle soap to clean - most leather is really dirty and has oily residue

2). Tool - let dry

3). light coat of neats foot oil - let dry 12-24 hours

4). Apply dyes - let dry thoroughly

5). Apply a couple light coats of clear/resist - let dry

6). apply several light coats of color ( acrylic )- let dry

7). Apply a couple light coats of clear/resist

8). Apply antique gel to highlight all the tooling - let dry

9). Apply several light coats of clear.

When you apply stain, it needs to be applied to clean dry leather, and once its dry and has enough coats to get the color saturation you need, you need to put some clear or resist on it to keep the dyes and antiques from bleeding into the color.

If you are going to brush on the clear/resist - you need to do so in such a manner as you are not wiping away the stain/color. Spraying is the only way I have been able to accomplish this. I finally broke down and bought an inexpensive airbrush. You can do it without an airbrush, but expect to get a little color bleed.

[Colt W Knight]

Just A Thank You to Colt For your answer here.

All this is in my head from years of Sign lettering,

but I could not get it out so clearly, good job !

Thanks my friend ! ------ Wild Bill46

Thanks Bill ,

I learned a lot about dyes and painting building custom guitars. Whenever you mix products - I cant emphasize TEST OF SCRAP first enough. Even when you don't mix products, you still need practice to get your thinning ratios and applications just right to where you can get good results. Folk who are new to these things don't understand how they work, and are usually disappointed when they start using more than one product on the same project. Hobby stores always make their products out to be better than they really are.

[LeatherNerd]

Indidana, how did resolene work for you?

I had this same exact problem... but with resolene. I've all but sworn the stuff off.

In my case, I tooled the leather then stained it with Tandy Eco-Flo Saddle Tan Hi-Lite Color Stain. It was absolutely gorgeous with a deep, rich tan darkening down to brown in the tool marks. When I wiped on the resolene, I wiped the whole thing back to an anemic-looking yellow, surfaces and tool impressions alike. I applied the stain again, arriving at a murky, low-contrast brown that looked nowhere near as nice as the original finish, but at least didn't look awful anymore. Then I dabbed on another coat of resolene, letting it soak and pool slightly.

The end result was a mediocre finish that, as soon as I shipped it to a friend in humid Portland, Oregon, became sticky. Oh, and the dye must have pulled up and mixed with the resolene while I was daubing it because after all that, it still stained his hands and clothes.

I have heard that resolene in particular becomes gummy if overused so the second coat was probably doomed to fail, and dabbing it on and letting it pool probably sealed my fate (but not my leather).

I'm still experimenting, and I need to try spraying. But for now one thing I've found that has a dramatic effect on my results is drying time. I applied the hi-lite stain an hour after tooling and I think the leather should have been dried overnight. And I applied the resolene the next morning, and I'm starting to think that 24 hours at a minimum might be needed to let the hi-lite stain fully cure, since it is specifically designed to pile up and thicken in crevices.

These are just my experiences so far and my thoughts for where to go next; I'm new to leather so take my experiences with a grain of salt and my theories with a grin and a big bag of popcorn.

[Blackbirdhills Andy]

Hi there,

I'm currently working on a pair of chinks with a two-tone (brown/Natural) carving. My question is:

I'm done with everything, now I'm a bit scared of oiling, because the color could get smeared, right? Or am I safe with just lightly touching it up with some oil on a sponge? I use fiebings professional oil dye... After that, I was planning to use bag kote, but I can use a can of leather sheen too if thats safer...

thanks a lot!

[Colt W Knight]

It probably wont smear, but the dye will most likely bleed some.

I always rub recently dyed leather with a cloth until it quits rubbing off, then apply the clear coat. Fiebings pro oil dye bleeds a lot less than any other dye I have used.

[Blackbirdhills Andy]

15 hours ago, Colt W Knight said:

It probably wont smear, but the dye will most likely bleed some.

I always rub recently dyed leather with a cloth until it quits rubbing off, then apply the clear coat. Fiebings pro oil dye bleeds a lot less than any other dye I have used.

Thanks; I oiled it yesterday; no problem at all... 

[Widget]

FWIW, I've used Resolene, Resolene cut 50/50 with water, and Super Sheen.  I've used sponges, daubers, old t-shirts, and sprays (I do not have an airbrush so I tried the ones you get from Home Depot, the name of which eludes me at the moment, but it's a glass container that you screw onto a can of propellant). 

I will say between the two, I get the best results from Super Sheen, even though I don't any Tandy dyes (I always use Fiebing's dyes).  I've found the keys for me are 1) very, very, very thin coats, buffed out after they're dry.  You can always add another coat, taking away, well... and 2) most importantly, make sure the dye/stain/hi-lighter, is DRY DRY DRY.  For me, that means in the humid east coast summer, I let the dye dry at least three days before I even think about coating the top.  Then I'll buff the snot out of it until the rag comes clean before laying on the first coat. 

All of that said, unless I need something to be super duper weather resistant, I'm happier with 2 light coats of Tan Kote on top.

PS  The other advice about oiling leather before the first coat of dye is spot on too...especially if you're using an alcohol dye...I've forgotten to oil a piece and had the finish crack off because the skin of the grain got too dry...

[Colt W Knight]

6 hours ago, Widget said:

FWIW, I've used Resolene, Resolene cut 50/50 with water, and Super Sheen.  I've used sponges, daubers, old t-shirts, and sprays (I do not have an airbrush so I tried the ones you get from Home Depot, the name of which eludes me at the moment, but it's a glass container that you screw onto a can of propellant). 

 

They are called Prevail sprayers. Ive had mixed luck with them. 

[Halitech]

Tandy sells them as well. for the cost of the propellant, might as well buy an airbrush and compressor.

[RoosterCogburn]

So I got this old 2002 dated Tandy super shene leather finish from my uncle and it's coagulated at the bottom but it's not completely dried out it's mushy but still has a little liquid, is there anyway I can fix this or should I just trash it

[tsunkasapa]

Pitch it, it sounds like it has frozen. Even if it has just evaporated it's really not worth trying to "fix". That being said, I don't ANY of the shiny acrylic finishes. I think they make leather look like plastic.

[RoosterCogburn]

18 minutes ago, tsunkasapa said:

Pitch it, it sounds like it has frozen. Even if it has just evaporated it's really not worth trying to "fix". That being said, I don't ANY of the shiny acrylic finishes. I think they make leather look like plastic.

Good too know thank you, is there a finish or anything like that you would recommend using for belts and buckles and similar

[fredk]

10 hours ago, RoosterCogburn said:

So I got this old 2002 dated Tandy super shene leather finish from my uncle and it's coagulated at the bottom but it's not completely dried out it's mushy but still has a little liquid, is there anyway I can fix this or should I just trash it

sometimes ya just want to save something. try adding alcohol, eg, IPA or meths and some water. Shake and leave for a couple of days, shaking it real good every so often. If that doesn't bring it back - dump it

9 minutes ago, RoosterCogburn said:

Good too know thank you, is there a finish or anything like that you would recommend using for belts and buckles and similar

mop & glo floor 'polish' or just a beeswax/nfo/carnauba mix

[tsunkasapa]

I only use neat's-foot oil and Bee Natural's Leather Finish. It is very similar to Leather Balm w/Atom Wax, but doesn't have the bubble issues.