Cobra, Cowboy Or Ferdco?

[BitterBeard]

I have once again been doing some research as I look to pickup a thick leather sewing machine. I have a Juki 1541s that I use for all of my chrome tanned leather sewing and it works great but I am expanding a bit and I am looking for advice on which direction to go. Cowboy 4500, Cobra 4 or Ferdco pro2000 super bull. All of these machines to me look to be exactly alike, the Cowboy and Cobra seemed to be priced very competitively to each other too. So I'm mostly looking for the current owners or those in the know for suggestions on which way the best wind is blowing for your bottom dollar. Would you buy your machine again if you could do it over or would you look at a different brand?

I like that the Cobra 4 has a premium package that gets you most of the feet, plates, work platform, extra bobbin, needles and some threads and looking at the Toledo site I don't see a package deal so does anybody know if they offer that? I like to do a one time purchase for most of the equipment of what i'll need so I have it all in my shop at the get-go.

Once again thanks to all that respond, I greatly appreciate the information given at this website, I seem to be reading it, all the time.

[Colt W Knight]

I have once again been doing some research as I look to pickup a thick leather sewing machine. I have a Juki 1541s that I use for all of my chrome tanned leather sewing and it works great but I am expanding a bit and I am looking for advice on which direction to go. Cowboy 4500, Cobra 4 or Ferdco pro2000 super bull. All of these machines to me look to be exactly alike, the Cowboy and Cobra seemed to be priced very competitively to each other too. So I'm mostly looking for the current owners or those in the know for suggestions on which way the best wind is blowing for your bottom dollar. Would you buy your machine again if you could do it over or would you look at a different brand?

I like that the Cobra 4 has a premium package that gets you most of the feet, plates, work platform, extra bobbin, needles and some threads and looking at the Toledo site I don't see a package deal so does anybody know if they offer that? I like to do a one time purchase for most of the equipment of what i'll need so I have it all in my shop at the get-go.

Once again thanks to all that respond, I greatly appreciate the information given at this website, I seem to be reading it, all the time.

Yeah, you can get the total package from Toledo as well. They are both 2795.00

Ferdcos were super well thought of in the 90s, and I believe they were made with actually Juki parts back then. I don't know if they still are or not. I think the company who made them back then went under, and the brand was brought back again by another company.

http://www.tolindsewmach.com/images/Cowboy_cb4500_mag_ad.jpg

Edited January 31, 2016 by Colt W Knight

[Art]

The Ferdco 2000 may not be in current production although Hoffman Brothers may be producing it. The 2000 was based on the Taiwan made Taking 441 last I knew, which was a very high quality clone and more expensive than the Chinese mainland 441s. If I could get one of them used, I would buy it before the others. Make sure you know from where your machine came, or was made.

The Highlead machines are the next level of quality in my opinion tougher and beefier than the Cowboy and Cobra, and they cost a little more to go with that.

The Cowboy and the Cobra are, last I knew, made in the same factory. Cowboy has a few things Cobra doesn't have but the guts are the same, paint is different.

All the accessories for these machines are dirt cheap to the dealers, you and everyone else would be really surprised. Demand a deal on accessories and be ready to walk if they don't give you something you like.

Cobra being closer to you is a plus that should be evaluated.

Art

[Wizcrafts]

Snip

I like that the Cobra 4 has a premium package that gets you most of the feet, plates, work platform, extra bobbin, needles and some threads and looking at the Toledo site I don't see a package deal so does anybody know if they offer that? I like to do a one time purchase for most of the equipment of what i'll need so I have it all in my shop at the get-go.

Once again thanks to all that respond, I greatly appreciate the information given at this website, I seem to be reading it, all the time.

There is an image on the lower left of the CB4500 page with a photo copy of their ad from Shop Talk magazine. Click on it to see a larger readable view. Turn off your ad blocker if you don't see it. Sometimes, just refreshing the page will get it to reload and display.

Edited January 31, 2016 by Wizcrafts

[JREESER1]

In April of 2014, I bought a Cobra 4P, the one with the accessory package, and I could not be more pleased. Both the machine and the service support have been absolutely stellar. Set up was easy, and I was learning to use the machine in only a few hours. One phone call about a tension issue and a thread, needle combination was easy to follow. I have had no issues with timing or misaligned reverse sewing at all. I keep it oiled, religiously with no problems with any wear or weird noises. I have sewn with #138 to #348 thread, on 8oz. to 3 layers of 10oz. without issue.

I will recommend the Cobra 4 and Steve at The Leather Machine Co. to anyone, without hesitation. They are advertisers on this site and they are located in So. California. Give Steve a call and talk to him and see for yourself.

[dirtclod]

Ferdco pro 2000 ! I've used mine 20 plus years with problems as all. Stitches in the same holes in reverse to.

Edited February 1, 2016 by dirtclod

[BitterBeard]

There is an image on the lower left of the CB4500 page with a photo copy of their ad from Shop Talk magazine. Click on it to see a larger readable view. Turn off your ad blocker if you don't see it. Sometimes, just refreshing the page will get it to reload and display.

It was Ghostery stopping that from showing up, thanks Wizcrafts.

Can't say enough how much I appreciate people's input, sadly, not making it easier

I'll make some phone calls in the morning and see who can come up with what and might just end up going by price at this point. The local industrial sewing shop that I've bought multiple machines from, they are selling the Ferdco but I also imagine they're going to be the most expensive.

[Cascabel]

On a large heavy item like this, shipping cost can be either a deal maker or a deal breaker. I got my Cowboy from Toledo shipped to the local freight terminal, and picked it up myself. Considerably cheaper than home delivery.

[TinkerTailor]

Go with the ferdco. Support the local guy, If you already have a good relationship with them. The ferdco is a 441+ by most standards, basically an improved 441 and from what i have read from owners is it is worth the price over a cowboy or cobra. They were built like tanks, the local guy will not need to ship, which may make up the price difference.

Local service is a great thing. I have local service for other wood and metal tools, however the industrial sewing dealers in my area did not rub me the right way so i had a machine shipped across the country. Techsew has been quick to help with any issues, however they are a very long way away and shipping takes time. Plus the local guy can come over and set it up to do what you want, and show you stuff. Showing is way better that trying to explain over the phone.

As far as pricing, I was looking at 3 much closer dealers, the closest was selling taiwan 441s for juki money, and the other two were selling Chinese 441s for Taiwanese money. One is a cobra dealer here in Canada.

Same guy sold 1/2 lb of 207 thread for 30 bux canadian and charged 32 canadian for a pack of 10 s-point schmetz needles to a relative as an xmas gift for me. When i noticed the price i just about choked and called the guy to have a word or two on highway robbery........i get 1lb spools for $25-30 and needles for $15-20.. and that is the expensive online retail option.

In your situation if the ferdco price is a bunch more than getting one shipped, arrange for setup and a lesson to be included in the price. It will be worth it, but be on the lookout for highway robbery......

Edited February 1, 2016 by TinkerTailor

[Art]

If you can get the Ferdco from a local dealer, there really is no choice. Get the Ferdco. While I haven't been into a dealer in decades, they are essential lifeline for the person new to heavy stitchers. To have a dealer in your area is worth many hundreds of dollars in time, frustration, and ultimate satisfaction. All those accessories are cool, but truth to be told, 90% of them never get installed on a machine.

Art

[BitterBeard]

Local dealer had Ferdco pro 2000 $3200 out the door with 90 days warranty through them then I had to ship the head unit out of state if it needs service. They do not work on the machines in their shop, which was kind of a bummer. They repaired my Merrow A-3DW and it's ran like a champ for a year now, their repair guy is a really cool person. I would be okay paying a little more if I could just drive the head unit down to a shop if things were having issues, but that doesn't seem to be the case with the 441. Also the feet and plates along with the thread they hook you up with isn't as good as the other two, which isn't a huge deal to me but it still factors in. The major thing is not having the local drop off and being the most costly, I did ask about showing me how it works like TinkerTailer said and the sales guy said I've done enough business with them that they have no issue showing me what they know even if I don't buy this machine through them. I buy all my supplies through them already if they carry it, just to support the local business.

Cowboy was their premium package 2795 plus 230 shipping to my door. They did offer pickup at a local shipper for 150 but I'd have to drive 90mins one direction with no traffic, saving of 65 bucks.

Cobra is doing a show in a local town Prescott, AZ later this month and they will have a 2695 show deal. I can pick up a machine there AND then visit some family in Prescott. This seems like the most tempting deal to me.

Again thank you everyone for the input, once again this forum proves invaluable with information. I'll show my support by picking up a subscription to support it.

Edited February 1, 2016 by BitterBeard

[JLSleather]

Are we not thinking this is the SAME machine?

[dirtclod]

Buy whatever you want. But it seems to me your just thinking about saving a few dollars. In the twenty plus years I have owned my Pro 2000 all I have ever done it is replace one tension spring and a couple of new tires for the winder. Never had to reset the timeing, very rarely have adjust tehison from thick to thin. Plus you get the special parts that Ferdco came up with. Like I said at the start buy whatever you want.

[BitterBeard]

Are we not thinking this is the SAME machine?

cobra_DISCOUNTS.jpg

Yeah that's the machine, I linked them all in my original post to their respective seller.

Buy whatever you want. But it seems to me your just thinking about saving a few dollars. In the twenty plus years I have owned my Pro 2000 all I have ever done it is replace one tension spring and a couple of new tires for the winder. Never had to reset the timeing, very rarely have adjust tehison from thick to thin. Plus you get the special parts that Ferdco came up with. Like I said at the start buy whatever you want.

I asked if the machine they were selling was the Juki 441 frame like you have and they said no, theirs was just like the Cowboy and Cobra where the frames are made in China and then each respective company adds their own colors and features. The Pro 2000 you have I'd have to find used and I would but there is nothing on my local craigslist I can locate or anything on Ebay. I'd like to finish this hunt up in the next week or two.

Also thanks Colt W Knight for linking to that Toledo deal as well, just realized that rereading this thread.

Edited February 2, 2016 by BitterBeard

[houndsnmules]

I have had a Ferdco pro 2000 for close to twenty years, I would recommend the machine. The web page is still out there that tells you what parts are specific to the Ferdco's. As to the other machines I'm sure they sew well also. Find out if the parts are still unique to the Ferdco and if they help with stitch quality.

Edited February 3, 2016 by houndsnmules