Anyone Make Metal Burnishers

[charlescrawford]

I will work on making changes/updating my design when I get a chance this weekend.

What do you consider reasonable? To some people it may be $40 for others $150... without a number it is hard to tell if it is worth the effort to even look into mass production. (in this case I am only talking 20-50)

I work with a local machine shop when our shop gets too busy. I could have them quote it in quantity of 10, 20, 50, and 100. But I would have to know that people are interested and willing to pay cost + shipping before I would waste their time.

Aaron

For me affordable would be 40-50 bucks. I am still getting things going and living on disability

[greystoneleatherllc]

I've been working on one that ranges from 12mm with to 4mm slot with for holsters n belts @ 3mm deep with a variable radius

to allow for belts and HD laminated leather and still give a slight curve to the finished edge not 2 corners and a flat spot but a appealing finish and

should be reversible and work on a generic buffer like a HF 3400 rpm buffer w/ variable speed control,

and will allow user to to switch grooves to the inner side or out side which ever works best for the end user

first two have been prototypes and changed to make more of what I want,,,,, but also considering also having a run of 25-50 or a run of 100-1000+

first small run might be $48-52 cost so if I can cover that and 25%? that would cover my out of pocket so far

I'm very happy with what I have,,.my guess a small run cost less than 50, will be in the 70 85 unit range 100 or more will drop 10-15%

I've dumped a several hundred in so far with the first, but getting to where and what I want,

First one were done in stainless as that was on hand The company doing the prototypes is into combat rifle muzzle-brakes and suppressors state of the art CNC laser cutting stuff

run items will be 60 or 70 grade aluminum and tumbled polished

will let you know how it finishes as I'm waiting on a third and hopefully final unit

would be interested in making a production run if interest was more than a few

will share details and end results when we get there,,db

[Nuttish]

I made one out of stainless. It doesn't work, I suspect because the steel obviously doesn't absorb moisture and cannot generate heat from friction.

I want to say I recall someone saying something about dielectric constants of wood and phenolic or some other magical physics nonsense.

[charlescrawford]

JLSleather have you looked at harbor freight for metal lathe's?

Edited February 13, 2016 by charlescrawford

[greystoneleatherllc]

SS steel nor Aluminium absorb moisture, Al and SS/ friction WILL generate HEAT,, AL will heat/cool it quicker than SS steel, that said ,,,,,

burnishing requires HEAT/FRICTION ,, not a lot hence the use of AL,over SS steel,

ALUMINIUM is a clear choice, so a burnishing tool should generate the most heat at a friction rate..

.BUT.....

wood is a better choice BUT durability/production rates made wood a ,,,,???,,, choice

unless you have the ability to supply your own needs with wood and generate the tools at a sane $$$

so AL is a choice to allow consistent duplication of results/// less operator error for leather"""IMHO""""""

but not to throw a wing dinger in finishing edges is a art YOU fine tune based on what others do and what you can manage

or what you know and have learned

I have a enco lathe that is not a HF/cheap o and I know I DO NOT HAVE the skill to do what I want with it

so thats my $0.02

db

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

I have a steel one and folks, I wouldn't waste my time. A wood tool handle works better and faster than that thing on a motor. Paid $60 for it over twenty years ago, so as far as $40 or $50 being "affordable" in this day and age, well another reason I wouldn't waste my time. JMHO

[OLDNSLOW]

two responses here, the cost thing for me would be in the 40 to 50 range as well as I am trying to get this thing off the ground with a very limited amount of cash, the other is but not being an expert, I would think that aluminum would work better than the stainless. But only testing would provide an answer to the question. To some it may seem that the wood ones seem to be high based on what they are, but it is my understanding that the fine dust created from cocobolo is very hazardous to a persons health, so that makers of those might be building that in to the cost of making them not to mention that the wood is costly to begin with.

Edited February 15, 2016 by OLDNSLOW

[Tigdim]

Thanks for the input... latest drawing.

I don't like the radii on the slots coming to sharp edges as JLS has it drawn... so I have .100" between each slot with a .050" radius.

Planning to drill and tap the 1 1/4" round stock for 1/2-13 bolt, epoxy the bolt into the AL round (might use red loctite but I have not decided) . Then chuck the shaft into the lathe once the loctite dries, that will insure the burnishing surfaces are true to the shaft.

AL Burnisher with Steel shaft.PDF

[JLSleather]

Yep, I wouldn't recommend a sharp point between the grooves, either. I jsut figured somebody would round it with a file - but that 'divider' thing certainly works.

Don't think i would personally bother with threading the hole. Prolly just use a piece of drill rod, ream teh aluminum like .001 under, press it in, and cross-pin it (brass pin would be fine).

One thing I do think I made a mistake with.. now that I look at it. I'd likely make the 1/4" diameter section a bit longer, so you have a straight section about 3/8" long NOT counting the radius.

And I made the wider slots 3/16" deep (drew a line straight under the 3/16" radius). You have it drawn shallower here, which might be a good idea ... make it 1/8" deep, and try it out, and a guy could always take it deeper if you cared to.

[Colt W Knight]

I have heard of folks gluing canvas to metal burnishers to make them effective.

[JLSleather]

Been thinking about a lathe for a long time.. not sure it would pay to do it. It's not so much the cost of the lathe, as the cost of the concrete footing I'd need to put under one! Still, I got yet another email today from a popular tooling place I used to shop at...

[Nuttish]

I have heard of folks gluing canvas to metal burnishers to make them effective.

Might as well just get some Italian wheels from Campbell Randall rather than spending tbd time and money fabricating a tool of marginal utility and figuring out how to make it work. I can get a belt blank nicely polished in a few minutes between my wheels and a belt sander.

[venator]

I have a friend with a machine shop and I'm going to see what it would run me for a prototype, often he'll throw a one-off my way for free.

[Colt W Knight]

The only thing appealing about canvas to me is that you can take it off an put clean canvas on if you alternate between black edges, burnishing wax, and doing a clean natural edge. Personally, I use cocobolo burnisher in my drill press. One of these days, I am going to make a multiple mandrel burnisher I can use for multiple color edge dyes and wax.

[Nuttish]

I forgot to say that you might test whether metal will work in the first place by thoroughly degreasing your Jacobs chuck so you can Barge or Weldwood on a layer of canvas. You can easily remove the cement with paint thinner. Now you've got a canvas covered steel cylinder to play with.

[charlescrawford]

Did anyone ever get anything figured out for a alum burnisher?

[Trox]

Professional Italian leather burnisher machines use metal burnisher bits. They use heating elements inside them. An advantage with metal is that is easy to clean after using wax. Stainless steel conduct very little heat, I think brass would be the best material.  Aluminium will work too but not as good as brass will. I have a problem with pasting in links. You will see an example of such machine in this site Sieck.de then go to "belt manufacturing": Sieck type 709 H leather edge closing machine with heat.

Tor 

[RockyAussie]

Before going into leather goods manufacturing I was in the buis of shoe repairs.On our finisher machines (sands and polishes) they came with an attachment for burnishing in the edges of  soles.They are made from steel and worked pretty well. As i have a lathe I made up one in Brass the sizes I was chasing and at first it was no good. I went back and looked at the big old steel ones and saw that there needs to be some small flats filed in to the circle to make it hammer a bit or hold the resin or polish. It then worked fine.The brass I used is about 1+1/4" dia and the 4 flats are about 2mm deep evenly opposite of course.

I think most decent shoe repair shops would have one to check out
If you need pics let me know.

Regards Brian

[JLSleather]

I thought that was taken care of a while back.  Where'd that guy go?  

I still haven't ruled out wooden burnishers, but what glue is used to stick 'em on the metal shaft?  I suppose I could cross-pin 'em (and I might anyway) ...

Started actually shopping a bit for lathes this afternoon.  I've used a lot of 'em, just a matter of determining which is best suited to what I want to do (cost, space required, electrical connections, etc.).

 

[venator]

I'm currently pricing out getting 10 of these made in steel. I have a friend who's a machinist. I'll let you all know pricing once I get it. 

[Trox]

JLSleather, you use epoxi. But remember to leave a little gap between the wood and the metal, because metal would expand with heat and make the wood Crack (fill the gap with epoxi glue), here is one I had made for a motor. Work very well, it's cocobolo wood.

[venator]

So I got a quote back from my machinist. 

 

If enough people want them I could get a run done for $100usd each plus shipping. Aluminum burnishes with steel shanks in whatever shank diameter you want. 

 

Interest?

 

Stu

[OLDNSLOW]

I think that , that price is just a bit high for the item JMOP

[JLSleather]

Yeah, that price seems extreme.  Aluminum round stock is about $1 per inch (3/4" or 1" stock) and drill rod is nearly free.. so only cost would be the labor.

I've stayed out of that so far since CNC machining would be the way to go -- and I haven't found one of those that is both affordable and worth owning.

IF someone knew of a shop who was willing to run some of those after hours (if there is such a thing in manufacturing any more) then I could see $100 for the FIRST one, and more like $30 after the first one - and at $30, a guy could do pretty well.

Assuming that a guy already had the drawing decided on, then you'd need to know the type of controller involved to write the code (Haas, Fanuc, etc...)

I wonder if that guy I used to know is still working over at the college ...

 

OH>.. and thanks, Trox

 

 

Edited May 27, 2016 by JLSleather

[venator]

Well the quote I received was $400 for one or $1000 for 10...

 

im not in machining so I haven't a bloody clue. I'm not even trying to make money on it, just throwing it out there if anyone was interested. 

Edited May 27, 2016 by venator