Issues With Stitch Holes

[brettra]

Hello Folks,

Looking to pick at the knowledge base. I did up a long wallet from template and used my diamond hole chisel on the inside and then used the diamond shaped awl to push through the remaining layers. (Up to 4 in some areas). The awl pushed through easy enough but the end project obviously had ascetic issues due to the tear out on the leather. Awl was sharp and did not really bind up as I pressed it through the layers.

Leather was very low in the stitching horse. I wanted to ensure minimal movement.

I had concerns with the holes lining up on the various thicknesses so I was of the mindset, this was the way to best line up my holes.

Any suggestions to keep this from happening again? Thank you.

[Tugadude]

Here is one suggestion. Punch through one or two layers at a time, line them up over the remaining layers and push the diamong chisel through the existing holesand press hard enough to mark the leather. Then punch through the layer(s) just marked. Stack them up and stitch, or glue then stitch.

What diamond chisel are you using, number of prongs, size, etc.?

[brettra]

I don't have access to the chisel and number right now but a standard Tandy 4 prong chisel. I didn't show it in pictures as it was on the inside and used to guide the push through process. This was the outer side of my awl pushing.

I used the chisel on the inside and then pushed the awl through to the outside.

I think I understand what you mean by marking. I'm taking this that I should be assembling, cut mark, then back to chisel from any face side of leather. Sounds like a few assembly/dis-assemblies but should improve the look on the face sides of leather.

[grmnsplx]

Are you using Tandy's waterstain to colour your leather? That's what it looks like.
This stuff really stiffens your leather - the surface at least. It also doesn't penetrate. Since the leather is stiff, when you drive the chisel (or awl through), you can crack and tear the surface making your holes look messy. And since the stain doesn't penetrate, the uncoloured leather inside the hole is quite visible.

You could try softening the leather with some oil after staining. And maybe consider a different method of colouring your leather.

[Tugadude]

One thing about your awl, the blade is longer than I prefer. Many use even longer ones to good effect, but I find that a shorter one is easier to keep straight and level. Honestly, awl work is challenging. Keep your elbow out and make certain that the angle of the blade is exact each time. Takes time to get consistency.

[Tugadude]

Remember that the diamonds have a direction to them. If you punch the face of the outside it will not line up with the inside layer that was punched from the inside. So punch the outer piece from the inside or unfinished side.

[TinkerTailor]

I'm with grmnsplx, That tearing looks like it is leather related and not technique. Make up a test piece dyed the same way, however this time either use some neetsfoot oil or carnauba creme or something to bring back the leather suppleness after dying. Then stitch the same way you did and see if it improves.

Also, looking at the dye penetration at the stitch holes, it is not as deep as it could be. If you worked on your dying techniques to get deeper penetration, blemishes and tearing at the stitch holes won't show as bad, neither will scratches on the surface of the leather.

Edited March 3, 2016 by TinkerTailor

[Boriqua]

I have worked on all sorts of projects thick and thin and the only time I had blow outs like that was on two different Tandy hides. Both were 4-5 oz but I doubt that matters. It was just to dry. When I saw it happen on my first project all the pieces I cut from those hides after that I treated with a light coat of neatsfoot oil and let sit overnight and then worked with them as usual and had no further problems.

[brettra]

Are you using Tandy's waterstain to colour your leather? That's what it looks like.

This stuff really stiffens your leather - the surface at least. It also doesn't penetrate. Since the leather is stiff, when you drive the chisel (or awl through), you can crack and tear the surface making your holes look messy. And since the stain doesn't penetrate, the uncoloured leather inside the hole is quite visible.

You could try softening the leather with some oil after staining. And maybe consider a different method of colouring your leather.

I used Tandy's Antique Mahogany. Didn't think to oil afterwards so I appreciate that advise as well. Thank you.

Remember that the diamonds have a direction to them. If you punch the face of the outside it will not line up with the inside layer that was punched from the inside. So punch the outer piece from the inside or unfinished side.

Tugadude, Yes, this was the main reason for using the awl. Ran into this one already on a previous project lol.

[brettra]

I'm with grmnsplx, That tearing looks like it is leather related and not technique. Make up a test piece dyed the same way, however this time either use some neetsfoot oil or carnauba creme or something to bring back the leather suppleness after dying. Then stitch the same way you did and see if it improves.

Also, looking at the dye penetration at the stitch holes, it is not as deep as it could be. If you worked on your dying techniques to get deeper penetration, blemishes and tearing at the stitch holes won't show as bad, neither will scratches on the surface of the leather.

Thanks for this TinkerTailor, yes, I rushed this more than i should have. I placed down two applications of the antique dye but most likely did not work it in as well as I should have. I appreciate this, a very good reminder to me.... dye properly and stop rushing! Thanks

I have worked on all sorts of projects thick and thin and the only time I had blow outs like that was on two different Tandy hides. Both were 4-5 oz but I doubt that matters. It was just to dry. When I saw it happen on my first project all the pieces I cut from those hides after that I treated with a light coat of neatsfoot oil and let sit overnight and then worked with them as usual and had no further problems.

Thanks Boriqua, I 'm limited to Tandy as a provider due to being in the far North of Canada. Shipping costs are prohibitive by other leather providers so Tandy is my choice. I do have some neatsfoot in my kit so I obviously need to start making better use of it. Thanks for the advice.

[Boriqua]

No worries using tandy but I find I have a better chance of getting a not so good one when using tandy leather than say weaver. Having said that I have used a WHOLE lot of tandy leather over the years. Like I said .. cut out your pattern and then take a minute to rub some neatsfoot on it ... then as muhc as you want to move on to the next step .. set it aside overnight, give it a light buff and away you go like nothing happened and it has helped me in the past.

One more thought although it is a little aside of the OP. Tighten up your circles when you are rubbing the dye in. Looks like you tried to cover a fairly large area quickly and I think you may be happier with the results if you really do tight overlapping circles when you rub in the dye. Takes a good deal more time but .... Having said that ... aesthetics and what we want the end product to look like differ from person to person so I dont know if there is a RIGHT answer but you may want to try it.

alex

[brettra]

No worries using tandy but I find I have a better chance of getting a not so good one when using tandy leather than say weaver. Having said that I have used a WHOLE lot of tandy leather over the years. Like I said .. cut out your pattern and then take a minute to rub some neatsfoot on it ... then as muhc as you want to move on to the next step .. set it aside overnight, give it a light buff and away you go like nothing happened and it has helped me in the past.

One more thought although it is a little aside of the OP. Tighten up your circles when you are rubbing the dye in. Looks like you tried to cover a fairly large area quickly and I think you may be happier with the results if you really do tight overlapping circles when you rub in the dye. Takes a good deal more time but .... Having said that ... aesthetics and what we want the end product to look like differ from person to person so I dont know if there is a RIGHT answer but you may want to try it.

alex

Agreed. One other thing came to mind as well. Where the leather is stored (cold storage porch) our humidity is about 15% so, the leather is likely extra dry. I appreciate all the tips and advise!

Aesthetics goes a long way.... so does helpful advise from people willing to share. Thanks!

[TinkerTailor]

Thanks for this TinkerTailor, yes, I rushed this more than i should have. I placed down two applications of the antique dye but most likely did not work it in as well as I should have. I appreciate this, a very good reminder to me.... dye properly and stop rushing! Thanks

Thanks Boriqua, I 'm limited to Tandy as a provider due to being in the far North of Canada. Shipping costs are prohibitive by other leather providers so Tandy is my choice. I do have some neatsfoot in my kit so I obviously need to start making better use of it. Thanks for the advice.

What part of canada you in? I may have other options for suppliers that you are not aware of.

[brettra]

What part of canada you in? I may have other options for suppliers that you are not aware of.

Northwest Territories.

[TinkerTailor]

Northwest Territories.

Halfords in Edmonton has mail ordered to the north for years and carries veg tanned leather as well as a whole bunch of other stuff. Quite a few things the americans on here can not get... I have never purchased there but they sell trapper supplies so they would have shipping to the north down pat. I have got good deals at buckskin in calgary, and i know they ship. They sell hermann oak and lots of chap, garment and upholstery leathers. They have S.B Foot (redwing boots) oiltan leather. This stuff is bulletproof and waterproof bootleather. Great for outdoor gear. I have got it as low as 5 bux a square foot. There is a little color rub off sometimes.

The other thing to do is talk to every shoe repair or saddle repair guy you can get ahold of to see if they have sources or scrap.

[brettra]

Halfords in Edmonton has mail ordered to the north for years and carries veg tanned leather as well as a whole bunch of other stuff. Quite a few things the americans on here can not get... I have never purchased there but they sell trapper supplies so they would have shipping to the north down pat. I have got good deals at buckskin in calgary, and i know they ship. They sell hermann oak and lots of chap, garment and upholstery leathers. They have S.B Foot (redwing boots) oiltan leather. This stuff is bulletproof and waterproof bootleather. Great for outdoor gear. I have got it as low as 5 bux a square foot. There is a little color rub off sometimes.

The other thing to do is talk to every shoe repair or saddle repair guy you can get ahold of to see if they have sources or scrap.

Thank you again TInkerTailor, I will see if I can connect with Halfords.

[TinkerTailor]

Thank you again TInkerTailor, I will see if I can connect with Halfords.

Halfordsmailorder.com

[silverwingit]

The biggest problem I see is that you awl is waaay too big for the size thread you're using. The two strands of thread that go through each hole should pretty much fill the hole. You need to either get or sharpen down a smaller awl blade or some substantially bigger diameter thread or both. If your thread and awl blade size were properly matched the visibility of the un-dyed leather in the holes would be greatly diminished.

Your stitching should look more like this:

Michelle

Edited March 10, 2016 by silverwingit

[Tugadude]

I agree with Silverwingit and would add that a firm tap with a smooth-faced hammer should flatten the thread and force it to fill up any leftover voids in the holes.

[brettra]

Thanks Michelle and Tugadude, I figured the awl may be too big (as to why I included a pic). I'll check my kit as I' certain I have some smaller awl blades. If not, I'll look to Dremel out one.

Very nice stitching Michelle, if I can get mine half that clean I'll be pleased.

I'm still certain now that the low humidity of the NWT has contributed significantly to my leather drying out. House humidity gauge bottoms out at 15%. Guess what it's showing .

I'm coming back from traveling and had a chance to stop in at both Buckskin Leather (in Calgary) and Halford (in Edmonton). Halford is in the middle of reno's so it was a bit difficult to see their leather stock. Limited in veggie tan but absolutely every other leather imaginable. I picked up a beautiful side of pull-up leather with a glossy finish at Buckskin. Nice to see both places and have another option for ordering.

I'll be able to work a test piece soon so I look forward to layering up at least three pieces, applying neatsfoot, antique dying and then post my results. I will run this test from the same hide as my original pics. I will post back the results. I'll use the same awl for the test as well so that I can first fully test the humidity/oiling issue.

Again, thanks for all the feedback and support!

[brettra]

As I indicated, here is a photo with a test piece.

I used three layers of the the same 3-4 oz veggie. Applied a neatsfoot oil with two nice coverings and allowed it to sit 24 hrs. I used the same antique dye and awl to test this. The only thing I did not do is apply a finish coat for this testing.

I think the tear out has been brought under control.

It looks like my dye may be too thick as the two applications are not penetrating very deep into the leather. Any recommendations on how to thin? (I really don't want to throw away dyes if I don't have too"

The awl blade is sharp and is 3 mm across. I'm using Tandy's large roll of "Sewing awl thread #1216"

Edited March 21, 2016 by brettra

[Tugadude]

I would moisten your leather prior to dyeing. Also, do you clean it first? Oxalic acid does a great job of cleaning and also removes some surface contaminants that might interfere with your dye. Use a liberal amount of the antique. As far as thinning it down, I don't think it is necessary. Have you tried the alcohol or oil-based dyes? They might work better for you. Good looking stitching, BTW!

[brettra]

Thanks Tugadude, I didn't put too much effort into this test piece as I was mostly look to fix tear out. I have some leather cleaners so, I'll look to prep the leather a bit better on my next actual piece.

I know I get better penetration of the dyes with the other dyes but still am looking to get the best I can from the antique. Thanks for the advise on applying wet. I'll try that for certain.

Thanks for the compliment on stitching. This was still pretty rushed so I know I wasn't fully straight when pushing through. Again, I know I need to slow down on things so I can get the best out of the lining up of the stitch..