Machine/foot for padded belts and other tricky edges

[HVLW]

Hello, I really need some sewing machine help and would greatly appreciate it.  I've already bought 2 machines that don't work for this purpose:  

I am having a problem figuring out a good machine and/or foot for a certain problem I am having.  For example, when doing a 30mm padded reversible calfskin dress belt where the calfskin is roughly 2 oz each side of the belt and a thicker, but slightly narrower piece of leather for the lining.  If the belt is 30mm wide, I'd say the lining is about 18mm and 5-6 oz leather, so there's roughly 6mm wide to walk and stitch on each side.  On the only true walking foot machine I have currently (Cowboy CB3200 Juki 441 heavy duty unison feed clone), the stitch is too close to the edge of the belt to use both feet, so I use the left presser foot and the roller attachment on the right side with a max of 138 thread.  The problem is, when the left toe presses down, the leather layers, even though they have been glued, shift enough to twist, then when the center foot pushes down on what I'm calling the stitching channel, the leather moves something terrible.  So, I figured the machine was just too heavy duty, so I bought a mint condition Singer 15-91 per someone's recommendation.  It came with a plastic flat foot with a roller built in horizontally.  That worked fine for completely flat projects, but for example for these padded belts, I don't have enough clearance to get it on the stitch line.  So, I put a narrow zipper foot on it, which works surprisingly ok...but it doesn't always feed the top layer well and I've ruined a lot of time-consuming projects because of that.  Also, the Singer lacks the slow speed crawling capability that I am used to and love with the Cowboy with gear reducer.  The 15-91 only seems to like to run fast with leather, so I made a guide with magnets, and that's what I've been making due with until I find the right machine.  Now that this has become full-time for me, I want to invest in a nice machine.  I was looking at the Pfaff 335 and the Juki LU-1508NS.  I know they are different style machines, but those are the ones that caught my eye.  The local industrial sewing machine store, Stadham, carries Juki, and I like to buy local, so unless you all recommend a different machine for my purpose, Juki and Pfaff are my preferences, but by no means only options.  I want to be able to run up to a 138 thread.  I don't always use that thick of thread, but I want the capability.  Besides belts, I run into a similar problem with leather billfolds.  I use full leather card slots I split to roughly 1.5oz each, and cut the hidden slot pieces narrower than the outer edges and skive to reduce bulk, except for the tab at the top of each layer, to minimize the look of the bulk so that the edges of the wallet sewn are the back of the billfold  the lining, the tabs of each credit card slot (usually 3), and the bottom credit card slot.  So again, the stitch channel is very narrow, and I'm right next to much thicker leather.  The repair guy at the shop who has been doing it for 50 years ground a single right toe foot down on a Juki 1541, with the idea if he raised how high it walks, it would serve as an edge guide (off the leather), and the center foot with the needle would feed.  This didn't work.  Someone else suggested getting a big old Singer straight stitch machine (forgot the model) and using either a roller wheel on the left and adjust it to the height of the leather it is sitting on to feed, with just the needle in the much shorter/narrower stitch channel/line.  I know if I leave room to cut after I stitch it would be easier, but honestly I have so much invested in clicker dies and templates that I really would rather get a machine that would do it.  Bob at Toledo is making me some sort of foot to try on the Juki 1508 that walks one foot in front of the other as he described it.  I've never seen one, so I don't know anything else.  If that works, I'll get the Juki, but if there's some answer to my problem you can think of, especially if it could be solved with my current machines, I'd appreciate any assistance.  

Edited May 23, 2016 by HVLW
incorrect part number

[RockyAussie]

Hi HVLW,

I don,t know if I can be much help here but for what it is worth I will try. It would help if you could show a picture of the reversible belts you are trying to stitch.I make a lot of 30mm dress belts. Unfortunately i mostly work in mm but my reckoning says that 2oz is less than 1mm and thus your combined edge thickness is less than 2mm. When you say a lining size (I would call filler) is 18mm at about 2 to 2.5mm thick I would say you are going to have a very thin edge with a quite thick filler. My fillers would be 22mm by 1.5mm thick normally. I would think you would have to have an edge thickness no less than 2.5mm to take thread around 20 (138). At any rate mostly I use machines that have a roller on the left preferably a feeding or live roller. Trouble is getting a machine that has a bobbin big enough for using that thickness thread as I only get 6 to 8 belts per bobbin on a 40thread with my Adler 268VG post or Pfaff 331-33 cylinder (not a walking foot)but similar to the 335. I make a lot of wallets also and and for the refined work I have more luck with the Pfaff331-33 than I do with the 335. Mostly the advantage with the lazy foot dragging foot or whatever you want to call it, I can grind the feet thinner on the right side to get the guide closer to the needle or grind upward etc if i want on offset rise lift etc. Although I have gone to the trouble to make my own feet from scratch many a time I have found buying a few of the common feet and just grinding away at them works most of the time. (Finish them off with the metal polish and rag wheel when done) By the way I do all my edging before stitching and thus have no movement problems. I am hoping that some others with good experience like Wizcrafts or Gottaknow can be of better hel[p than I. Best of luck 

Regards Brian

[Wizcrafts]

Professional dress belt makers use a straight stitch drop feed machine, with aggressive teeth on the bottom, and a specially made tapered presser foot that covers the entire belt, pressing down on the thinner edges and riding high in the raised middle area. I have seen videos of these belt machines in action.

You may be able to approximate this tapered foot by purchasing a straight stitch machine and changing the feed dog and throat plate to a heavy duty set. Then purchase what's known in the trade as a compensating foot, where the spring loaded section is on the wider left portion, with the right side remaining static. The right edge will press down hard on the edge, while the spring loaded left foot will float and ride the hump. This will require some experimentation to find the best compensating foot.

[Wizcrafts]

Note, that some compensating presser feet also have a built in edge guide flange or spring that rides along the right edge of the belt.

[Wizcrafts]

17 hours ago, Sticks said:

Just found this thread and I have the exact issue to deal with . Only difference is I am making watch straps.

I bought a walking foot machine in the hope this will be fine. Did you find a solution.>?

I was hoping to lower the pressure on the outer feet and use a smooth bottomed zipper foot to stitch that channel.

Any ideas.?

I just answered your question in another topic. You will probably do better with a straight stitch machine and a custom curved foot. It might resemble a very broad piping foot, which has an arch ground along the left side. The problem is you will require an arch that has a radius broad enough to conform to a 16mm to 20mm (or more) watch strap. It may be possible, but I doubt it. The largest piping foot I have is 5/8" US measurement. That's probably close to 15 or 16mm. A lathe might be able to broaden out the radius for your straps.

There are piping foot sets for walking foot machines. Again, the widest I have found online is 3/4" radius.

[Uwe]

Here's one approach that might work, using a modified outer presser foot and a suitable throat plate:

 

 

[TinkerTailor]

I'm going to try that to my useless blanket foot. Thanks Uwe

edit: just looked, my blanket foot wont work.

Edited November 2, 2016 by TinkerTailor

[Uwe]

I first saw this concept on 441 style presser feet (photo from Toledo Bob's website):

 

[Uwe]

Are those watch straps machine stitched? Even if you manage to sew parts of the stitch line on a machine, some details will have to be done by hand. 

Most regular machines will have throat plates and feed dogs much too big for those tiny stitches that close to the edge. You may want to consider using a cylinder arm machine that has optional throat plates designed for "small operation". I think your watch straps qualify for small operation (with surgical precision.) 

I've not personally used the feet and throat plates shown below, but they seem like reasonable candidates to consider. The came from the Kwok Hing page for Pfaff 335 accessories.

The 335 S3 Needle/Throat plate and the 335 S4 feed dog seems about the right size for those tiny stitches on your watch straps, and without leaving too much of a hole in the plate for things to get caught up in.

For matching feet, it seems to me the KP335LB could be modified similar to what I did in the video (grind off areas inside dashed boxes) to sew extremely close to the edge and staying clear of the raised part of those straps.

Alas, you won't know for sure until you try it out. 

Edited November 2, 2016 by Uwe
typo

[TinkerTailor]

The time you save machine stitching will more than pay for the wasted material from trimming after sewing. If you leave yourself a road to drive on on the outside, your problems go away. I am also of the opinion that the only way to get a perfect edge without a bunch of sanding and/or perfect piece cutout and placement during glueing is to cut it after. If you trim, bevel then burnish/paint the edge it is much faster. When you cut it, if you are steady, the edge ends up dead flat and smooth, quick bevel and buff and you are done.. Plus there are less glue boogers to deal with. In addition i sometimes have bad glue adhesion right at the edge due to uneven application, cutting it back gets to leather that is bonded well helping to make and keep a nice edge. It does not mater if you burnish perfect, if the edges separate it looks like crap.

As far as the keeper, you are not going to be able to stitch the keeper in with a machine. You will need to staple/stitch the keeper into a loop and leave it free to slide around between the foldover at the end of the strap and the start of the stitching if that makes sense.

If you come back here next and ask us how to get a foot under the keeper to sew it in with a machine........

[Constabulary]

18 hours ago, Uwe said:

Here's one approach that might work, using a modified outer presser foot and a suitable throat plate:

 

 

....and again an excellent UWE-Video !!!