Singer 29-4 repair

[ndnchf]

Hello, new guy here with 29-4 that has had a hard life. It appears that it was dropped at one point which broke some parts in the head. I have the head apart and found the feed motion ring slide bar and feed motion bell crank lever broken. Also the bottom of the needle bar was bent. But I've straightened it, probably within .010". The broken parts will need to be replaced. I was wondering if anyone has a "parts" machine that I could source these parts from? I see that these two parts are available new for various 29K machines, but am unclear if they will fit a 29-4.  Or can they be made to fit with minor modification?  I also need a number of smaller bits and pieces. Thanks, Steve

 

Edited June 12, 2016 by ndnchf

[Kohlrausch]

7 minutes ago, ndnchf said:

Hello, new guy here with 29-4 that has had a hard life. It appears that it was dropped at one point which broke some parts in the head. I have the head apart and found the feed motion ring slide bar and feed motion bell crank lever broken. Also the bottom of the needle bar was bent. But I've straightened it, probably within .010". The broken parts will need to be replaced. I was wondering if anyone has a "parts" machine that I could source these parts from? Thanks, Steve

Hi,

these are steel parts, they could be welded. I have an Adler 30 parted out. The parts are available. I have not tried to put them into my Singer 29, though. Needlebar and needleholder I have exchanged; also the entire Adler 30-head could be driven from the Singer 29K1, but that's al I have tried.

 

Greets

Ralf C.

 

[Constabulary]

I have not worked on a 29-4 but a 29K-3 (the K probably makes a difference). I have installed new bell crank levers to older 29K´s and I´m sure the the feed motion ring slide works too but both may need some smaller modifications. You at least have to grind down the ring on the outside of the BCL a little bit. But as I said I´m not 100% positive the the 29K is using the exact same parts as the 29 (w/o K). You probably have to compare parts lists. But I would guess the parts are the same.

I actually have a 29K3 parts machine because I had two 29K3 with broken parts (same as yours) so I made one machine out of them - let me know what you need and I will check if I have the parts.

Where are you located?

[ndnchf]

I thought about welding the parts, but correct alignment is critical. Welding often causes warping. If these are even .020" out of alignment, they may not work. But as a last resort I could try it. I'm in Virginia.

 

Parts and part number I need so far are:

Feed motion ring slide bar 8562

Feed motion bell crank lever 8559

Needle plate 8591 (mines rusted)

Stitch regulator thumb screw 288

Needle bar 8655 (8693 with springs)

Needle clamp 8687

Needle clamp screw 237f

Tension spring 8619

Tension cup 8617

Tension nut 1560

Small bobbins

 

 

Thanks, Steve

 

Here is my project machine.

 

Edited June 12, 2016 by ndnchf

[Kohlrausch]

2 hours ago, ndnchf said:

I thought about welding the parts, but correct alignment is critical. Welding often causes warping. If these are even .020" out of alignment, they may not work. But as a last resort I could try it. I'm in Virginia.

 

Parts and part number I need so far are:

 

Hi,

 

I think it's a more robust design. Having right angles in the machine is not a critical as having worn bearings. I'ld take it to the next car repair shop and have the parts welded, then clean off the dust and rust and see how it works. If the groove in the needlebar drive cam 8661 is worn out you have much bigger problems than a slightly misaligned BCL.

First I'ld try everything that just costs sweat, then try the repairs that cost money.

The grooves in the drive cams may be full of hardened oil, giving the impression of being in factory toleances. Once you start cleaning, oiling and operating the machine, the old oil would be dissolved and washed out and then there's plenty slack in the drive. Been there, done that, went there again, done it again. There may be a hole in the bucket, oh Liza...

Best wishes

greets

Ralf C.

Edited June 12, 2016 by Kohlrausch
Noooooo

[ndnchf]

I suppose you are right, I have nothing to lose by trying to weld them. I have a MIG and a buddy who is a better welder than I'll have him look at it and see what he thinks. Thanks.

[Sovran81]

The ring and the feed cam are high wear items. The -4 is an old machine. I would replace the parts with new. A used ring is almost impossible to determine wear without using a new cam as a gauge although it tends to only wear in the position most used for sewing. College Sewing has all these parts new. Chances are you will be stuck with a tiny stitch with worn used parts.

You might want to check how loose the bobbin gears and shaft is before sinking any money into it.

[Sovran81]

2 minutes ago, Sovran81 said:

The ring and the feed cam are high wear items. The -4 is an old machine. I would replace the parts with new. A used ring is almost impossible to determine wear without using a new cam as a gauge although it tends to only wear in the position most used for sewing. College Sewing has all these parts new. Chances are you will be stuck with a tiny stitch with worn used parts.

You might want to check how loose the bobbin gears and shaft is before sinking any money into it.

A few other things to think of. You will need rubber tires for the rewinder and a threading tool unless you already have those items. Also the needleplate is very rusty and I would guess pitted(mine was too) I cleaned it up buffed it nice and shiny and even waxed it, but it still created drag which affected the feed. Plan on getting a new needleplate. It made a world of difference once all the other new parts were installed.

[ndnchf]

Thanks sovran81. So far the parts known to wear that I've examined don't look too bad, but I've not yet got into the bottom end and bobbin gears. The parts that were broken are rusty in the broken area, leading me to speculate that the damage occured a long time me ago. That may account for the amount of wear I've seen so far. But more investigation is required. Thanks Steve

[Sovran81]

OK I hope it works for you. Remember even though they are old, they were finely machined. No rocking or play between parts. I didnt realize just how tight they were until I started replacing some meshed parts. needlebar and bushing rocked slightly but the new ones were very close fit and slid as smooth as butter. The old feed cam and ring had some play in it, but I managed another 2-3 TPI by replacing those. The new parts had movement clearance but no play. Now I am working on a mod to sew without bobbin. No more short runs.

[gt2ride]

What number would you call good for the stitch count?  I just bought one at an auction .  I am getting 8 per inch

gt

[mikesc]

What is a good stitch count , is going to depend what it is sewing into ( total thickness ) when it gives any particular stitch count..8 into thin leather is not good ( because as the thickness increases, each stitch will get smaller , the stitch count number per inch will get higher ) depending on what you want to do ..8 sounds worn..as mentioned above, college sewing is your friend..or you could do some very finicky welding..
Clean it all up, ( check the play in the "foot bar"*, less is better ) then see what the stitch count is, crud and gunk makes the stitch count worse.

I can't remember what the true name of the part is, and it is late here, but someone(s) (sic) who knows far more about Singer29 machines will be along..

Edited June 16, 2016 by mikesc

[gt2ride]

Thanks Mike

I am sewing a total of 8oz leather

[mikesc]

What is the stitch count into a piece of thin leather like a 1 or 2 oz ..( 8 stitches could be good for 8oz, I thought you would be quoting the best you could get into thin leather, usually that is the "baseline" ) best stitch count I have heard of for one in good condition was 4 at that 1 or 2 oz kind of thickness, 5 is considered to be good..my 29K was doing 7 when I got it, then I cleaned the crud away from the foot bar, now it runs 5 stitches per inch into 1 oz chrome tan lambskin..Still a lot more cleaning to do ..so little time, so much to do..need a box of 36 hour days..

Also will depend on the thickness of the thread a little..thicker thread gives shorter stitches..

There may be some tweaks that I am unaware of that could get to 4, but wiser and more experienced heads than mine will have to post them if they exist..

Edited June 16, 2016 by mikesc

[gt2ride]

I will try some thin leather tomorrow .  I paid $70.00 for it .  That leaves a lot to play with.  I have several other

machines but this is the only cylinder . 

gt

[GPaudler]

2 hours ago, Sovran81 said:

 Now I am working on a mod to sew without bobbin. No more short runs.

Hi Sovran, I've wondered about that too for my 29-4, what's your idea? I'm a decent machinist and weldor and would be glad to help if I can. Or, at least keep us posted as you proceed.

Thanks,

Gary

 

[RockyAussie]

MOD without bobbin--- I tried a hole through the bottom and all I got was a chain stitcher.

[Sovran81]

5TPI is the best a new 29k will do in thin leather. Anything more than 8 in thin leather is worn out because if you try and sew anything thicker the stitches just get smaller quickly.

 

Mod- drill hole down through the center of the hook shaft. Bend a piece of metal brake line to work as a thread guide/protector to get the thread along the outside of the arm to the bottom of the hook shaft. Feed the thread through the tube and up through the hook shaft. Pass the thread through the bobbin holder and tension spring. Install the bobbin holder. 

I would not attempt this on a machine that was not like new. Normal wear causes sideloading of parts which greatly increases the amount of force to turn the machine over. That added force may be too much for the weakened shaft, though since it is in the bottom end, top end wear may have no effect. I am hoping to try the mod within the next couple months.

When I started the rebuild of mine, it was taken completely apart, cleaned, oiled, assembled and adjusted. I even followed a page I found online to shim the feed cam. It would sew but the new belt slipped often and parts slammed as they overcame spring tension. I replaced, the feed ring and cam, the needlebar and bushing, foot bar revolving bearing(broke it trying to drive a pin out for disassembly) Once those sloppy parts were replaced, I have 6TPI on 4 oz leather, The machine rolls over very easy and there is no slamming of parts as it rolls over. 

 

@RockyAussie In theory, as long as the thread was feed through the bobbin holder which houses the tension spring, it makes no difference if the thread is fed from the bobbin or up through the center of the hook shaft. 

 

Here is the link for the procedure of shimming the feed cam for those that want to try that route first. I used stainless shim stock instead of brass to reduce wear. It did work, but I still wasnt happy with the results.  http://needlebar.org/main/restoration/Singer29K13.doc

Edited June 16, 2016 by Sovran81
added information

[ndnchf]

This is all very helpful.  I appreciate everyone sharing their experiences.

[Sovran81]

12 minutes ago, ndnchf said:

This is all very helpful.  I appreciate everyone sharing their experiences.

Check the bottom end. On the -4 with out a replaceable gearbox(lower arm) that is where the line is drawn for repair. If that is good, then it might be worth replacing other parts needed. The closest machine new is 2600USD from techsew. I think I would rather a rebuilt old Singer though. Definitely worth going through for the price you paid.

[ndnchf]

I have not looked at the bottom end beside removing the bobbin and case, then watching the hook revolve back and forth. There does not seem to be much side to side movement of the hook. Can you tell me specifically what to look for? Photos would be helpful. Thanks.

[RockyAussie]

@Sovran81 I Did do the hole through and quite a lot of other as well and like you was convinced it would work BUT the top thread has to be able to completely go over the bobbin some how or you get a chain stitch which is all I could ever get. If there were a way of doing it, it would be worth millions I know. Please study the full process before spending to much on it. Trust me I wish you the best of Luck.

[LumpenDoodle2]

On 12 June 2016 at 8:32 PM, Constabulary said:

I have not worked on a 29-4 but a 29K-3 (the K probably makes a difference). I have installed new bell crank levers to older 29K´s and I´m sure the the feed motion ring slide works too but both may need some smaller modifications. You at least have to grind down the ring on the outside of the BCL a little bit. But as I said I´m not 100% positive the the 29K is using the exact same parts as the 29 (w/o K). You probably have to compare parts lists. But I would guess the parts are the same.

I actually have a 29K3 parts machine because I had two 29K3 with broken parts (same as yours) so I made one machine out of them - let me know what you need and I will check if I have the parts.

Where are you located?

I think the letter after the model number denotes where the Singer was made (K - Kilbowie, Scotland,  A - Anderson,  South Carolina, USA, etc).

Edited June 17, 2016 by LumpenDoodle2

[Constabulary]

I´d buy the parts new and modify them, thats for sure the better deal on the long view.

I once restored a 29K1 maybe the thread is helpful for you:

 

[ndnchf]

1 hour ago, Constabulary said:

I´d buy the parts new and modify them, thats for sure the better deal on the long view.

I once restored a 29K1 maybe the thread is helpful for you:

 

Thank you Constabulary - that thread is very, very helpful. I've been wondering about parts interchangeability between the different 29 models, your photos helped. Could you explain how you modified the new bell crank lever? Was it grinding down some of the added webbing at the 90 degree corner? I looked at College Sewing's web site - wow they have just about everything, I wish they were on my side of the pond. Thanks Steve