Brother LS2-B837 Help w/ Thread/Hook Assembly Issue

[LunarConcepts]

Hello, I am new poster but have been here often for answers. I have the above listed machine and I am at my wits end with a constant fraying thread issue I have.

I sew heavy nylon webbing. The issue I have is that when sewing it seems as though my hook is splitting my thread which in return causes it to fray above the needle eye or needle thread guide. It doesn't rip the entire thread just a strand. Its erratic and is happening at any thread tension. I sew with a tight tension as some of this nylon is like sewing through plastic. This adds extra twist to the thread so when it pops it really curls back on itself.

I have tried advancing and retarding my hook timing, replacing many if the items in the thread path I though we're casing the fraying and i have stoned any area that i thought might have a burr on it on the hook and bobbin assembly. I have tried size 19 thru 23 needles (sewing with T90-92 bonded nylon) and now I am curious if it something wrong with the hook assembly? I do know know the systems of a bad hook assembly or the normal problems that it causes?

I have had a tech look at the machine (house call) but with little luck. He thought maybe it was ever tension on the thread but it happens at most any tension and there are times where it sews yards of belt at a higher rate of speed, perfectly...then I might be lucky if it doesn't  happen every 3 to 6" of stitch. slow speeds do not help. I can actually hear the "snag" happen and usually it will be a pair of snags and that's it for the clean stitch (you get to know when something hiccups just by the machines feel) 

I did try searching through the forum for any suggestion. If you can offer suggestion on diagnosing the hook assembly or offer suggestion that would make it easier to swallow the cost of a new one, I'd  appreciate it. I have orders piling up and I'm at the point of just throwing it off a bridge.

Thanks, Chris

[Wizcrafts]

Make sure you don't use leather point needles on nylon webbing. The non-round points will slice and separate strands of nylon. If you have been using leather points, buy some regular rounds and see if they stop the thread splitting.

I usually use a #19, or sometimes a #20 needle with T90 bonded thread. The only times I get splitting top thread is when the thread itself is poorly bonded.

[gottaknow]

In my experience sewing webbing on vertical hook machines creates some different issues that other material. First and foremost, the webbing deflects the needle to the left. Even if your hook is set tight to the scarf of the needle, it deflects to the left and the hook point runs right through your thread. I set all vertical hook machines so that the hook point deflects the needle a bit, then adjust the needle guard on the hook to push the needle to the left enough for the hook point to clear the needle. What that means is that when you sew, your needle guard will deflect your needle to the left. Since your hook point is set for that, the webbing can't deflect your needle far enough for your hook to fray your thread because the needle is already under a little tension which keeps it from deflecting more. You also need a very sharp hook point. (Dull hooks fray thread) As for your hook timing, I generally retard the timing just a bit so that it goes through the scarf of the needle a little lower where the loop from bonded thread is more consistent.

Bottom line, even though your hook timing looks good, that needle will deflect to the left. More in webbing than any other material, which means your hook is simply too far away from your needle. Even on regular fabric and leather, frayed thread is usually caused by your hook to needle setting (left/right), or a dull or flat hook point. Have fun!

Regards, Eric 

[Tulsaman]

I owned your machine for years...  all I can say is many Bonded Polyesters aren't good. i always had issues with cheap thread. I use Hemmingway Bartlett Dabond 2000 from Sailmakers Supply.. it's the best I've used..Also I use the Grotz Ti coated needles..I sew many types of nylon webbing and no issues..I sold the Brother 10 yrs ago. Now use a Juki 1510n-7...  Make sure your tensions are right... and sometimes I adjust the scarf towards me to help throw the loop out. But your top tension may be too tight on the top. Try the bottom tension very light and adjust the top accordingly. .  As it will fray while going around the hook because of the strong tension . Fray will be at some point coming into the tension guides,needle eye etc. Also you can try using the next size needle to help penetrate the webbing better.

[LunarConcepts]

THANK YOU ALL!  Sorry I haven't replied.  I set my account to get notifications of replies but never saw any emails so I figured no one responded.

Last night was the straw that broke me. Today I woke up and started looking at a new machine just out of frustration.  I had a belt sew with no problems. I shut down for the night, woke up the next day and went to sew my next belt and couldn't make it 10" without an issue. Of course then you dive in for a solution and prob make it worse till better.

Wizcraft, thanks for the info on the needles. I plan on experimenting with a couple options. I have actually seen a puff of smoke roll off my projects and the needle can get pretty warm. I would like to give the titanium needles a shot.

gottaknow, I actually did move my entire hook assembly as far left as I could till the needle was just being pinched between the strike plate and the hook guard. This was probably the best thing I did as it seemed to help. Last night I flipped the machine up and was sewing thru a scrap belt just using the hand-wheel. I was actually looking at exactly what I believe you're describing. I was thinking to myself that the hook point looked like it could be closer to the needle but wasn't sure how to do it. Why, because being a noob I wasn't considering that I could actually set the hook point to basically strike the needle then BEND the hook guard to the correct position (so it stopped pinching the needle to the strike plate) to just deflect the needle out of the way. I forgot what a machine tech told me " yeah, we modify stock parts all the time" I thought if I tweaked a part out of as delivered spec it would ruin it. I truly think that its the hook splitting the thread. You can actually hear the machine sound rough when it does it, Its actually a rubbing noise. I WILL be trying this tonight...fingers crossed.

I have a barn find NATIONAL 26-188 which is a Singer knock off. It is a horizontal axis machine and it sews thru these belts with no problem and gives me proper tensions on the thick, stiff webbing all at twice the speed as the brother. The only thing is that it feels like an old tractor to sew with. Not refined at all. I know the Bother is capable just need to find the set up. Is a horizontal machine a better option for me? I was strongly considering pulling the trigger on a JUKI DNU1541S this morning. Any opinion on that? I know guys use them for exactly what I do and then can still work with 1000D and lighter Cordura as well.

Tulsaman, I really want to love the machine, It was complete for 550.00 and came out of someone home. Very little wear on the finish. I have it set up with a Reliable Sewquiet6000 and it punches thru anything I throw at it. I only use bonded nylon. Normally A&E T90. The thread tension is set pretty darn tight. It has to be or it will not even attempt to sink the top thread when pulling back thru the belt webbing (on the bottom side). I actually wonder if the tight tension is an issue as well as it really puts a tight twist on some of the thread possibly ruining its chances of making a nice loop for the hook to grab?  I have tried needle sizes 19 up to 23 with no real improvements in stitch tension. The machine seems smoothest when using the 20. I will definitely check out the Grotz Ti coated needled as I have been and play with the scarf orientation.

 

Thanks so much!

 

 

[Gregg From Keystone Sewing]

We service that machine, and have lots of customers who visit us from Lancaster area.

[LunarConcepts]

Thanks Gregg, I have called Keystone multiple time. I have asked to speak with a tech and each time I am told I will be called back to no avail. I wanted to purchase some parts and possible a hook assembly and didn't want to waste money if the tech thought it wasn't the issue.

This morning I called in and I was actually able to talk with someone but only regarding purchasing a machine (Juki). I had questions on cost if I didnt need a motor or if I picked the machine up myself etc.

I have to admit, as hard as its been to get a hold of a tech, I'm a little shy to purchase in case I need help or run into an issue down the road.

[Gregg From Keystone Sewing]

17 hours ago, LunarConcepts said:

Thanks Gregg, I have called Keystone multiple time. I have asked to speak with a tech and each time I am told I will be called back to no avail. I wanted to purchase some parts and possible a hook assembly and didn't want to waste money if the tech thought it wasn't the issue.

This morning I called in and I was actually able to talk with someone but only regarding purchasing a machine (Juki). I had questions on cost if I didnt need a motor or if I picked the machine up myself etc.

I have to admit, as hard as its been to get a hold of a tech, I'm a little shy to purchase in case I need help or run into an issue down the road.

Lois, who is my Mom, does filter many of our calls, sorry if you had a hard time getting through.  It's next to impossible to help someone time a hook, set needle bar height over the telephone.  Especially after the machine has been 'looked at' by another tech.  Who knows what they did to it at this point?  I could spend all afternoon on the phone and spin my wheels.  I don't think you need a new machine at all from what it sounds.  I always tell people, email is king for me.  I check my emails many times a day and it's rare that I don't get back to people.

Locally, usually we like people to drop off the machine for repair and come back in a day or so, in some cases we (may) be able to take your machine in early, and have you return later on in the afternoon when we have the repair done.

Again, sorry if I am hard to get a hold of.  I'll send you my contact info., thanks.

[LunarConcepts]

1 hour ago, Gregg From Keystone Sewing said:

Lois, who is my Mom, does filter many of our calls, sorry if you had a hard time getting through.  It's next to impossible to help someone time a hook, set needle bar height over the telephone.  Especially after the machine has been 'looked at' by another tech.  Who knows what they did to it at this point?  I could spend all afternoon on the phone and spin my wheels.  I don't think you need a new machine at all from what it sounds.  I always tell people, email is king for me.  I check my emails many times a day and it's rare that I don't get back to people.

Locally, usually we like people to drop off the machine for repair and come back in a day or so, in some cases we (may) be able to take your machine in early, and have you return later on in the afternoon when we have the repair done.

Again, sorry if I am hard to get a hold of.  I'll send you my contact info., thanks.

Thanks Gregg, I really appreciate the follow up. I wasn't really looking for instructions on timing a machine. I would never want to tell someone how to time a VW turbo diesel over the phone. I was really just looking for info on diagnosing symptoms of a bad hook assembly before a dropped the cash on one just hoping it might fix my problem. It really seemed to be the last thing left.

I think, with the help of everyone above, that I may have things worked out. If not I will contact you and set up a time I can drop off the head. I am on the far side of Lancaster County so its about a 3hr round trip. 

 

Again, thanks. I appreciate it.

 

-Chris