Singer "SV" machines

[dikman]

The subject of Singer's SV machines came up (again) in a couple of recent posts, so I thought I'd put in what little I know under it's own topic. If anyone knows anything about them (preferably fact, not speculation) please feel free to add to the meagre knowledge available.

I found this at the ISMACS site - " This list, published in 1926, reflects the sheer variety of available machines and the myriad purposes for which they were intended – from aeroplane hangars and balloons to vests and wrappers. And if there wasn’t a machine to do what you wanted, they’d build a SV (Special Variety) for you. "

And then there's this, from needlebar.org (antique sewing machine forum) - http://needlebar.org/cm/displayimage.php?pid=8462

It is beneath the front cover of a 15KSV83, which it states has "certain hardened parts".

"SV - Special Variety Machines

This is the cover and description of a Kilbowie Special Variety machine for Artisans, Tailoring and Light Industrial use. The machine stands up to hard wear and constant usage.

"It is fitted with certain hardened parts and, for greater production, a high speed band wheel of 17" is supplied with treadle operated machines. A special table is also supplied which provides more working space to enable the operator to handle the sewing of clothing, etc., with greater ease."

"There are hundreds (maybe even a thousand) Singer KSV and SV varieties of sub-models. They are Special Variety industrial machines because there are so many nuances and specialized requirements in the sewn products industry eg not simply with hardened parts.

Many of them had the model numbers re-assigned to new numbers. And there is no logical pattern to it. Here are a few examples:
16KSV3 became 16K121
32KSV3 became 32K6
45KSV58 became 45K67

Sometimes a large manufacturer will have a specialized requirement for a machine. They ask Singer if they can make a machine to their specs and they order a bunch of them. Sometimes other manufacturers might be making a similar product or see that they too could use this feature. So then they might place an order for them.
So it's not just the military or specially hardened parts. It can be anything that is different from the standard model. e.g. a machine might be set up to sew only a particular notion from a single vendor."

I found the reference to the re-numbering particularly interesting, because I'd noticed (and Darren Brosowski also mentioned it in another post) that SV machines seemed to have low numbering in the particular class they're in, numbering below where the "normal" models start.

Somewhere I came across a list of Singer models and classes, and within that list were many SV models, with W, K and G lettering indicating they were made all over the place! Unfortunately I'm blowed if I can find it again!!

 

Edited August 28, 2016 by dikman

[LumpenDoodle2]

Within the ISMAC site is listed (almost) every model made, with serial numbers, origins, uses, etc, and is a joy to read.    

Because Singer would make 'one off' machines, it is possible to find a hybrid machines that is completely unknown, even to Singer.

Can I suggest if anyone does own, or knows of one of these machines, they pass the info onto ISMAC to be documented.

[graywolf]

You asked that we not speculate, but one point seems to require that. If a SV machine later acquired a regular number, I would speculate that it had become a production machine and was assigned a production number.

Not speculative, I used to have a list that I can not find, the letter is the City where the factory that manufactured the machine was. Not the country as many think, except in the fact that the city is in that country. The ones I remember is W is Westport Connecticut, A is Albemarle North Carolina. K is a city in Scotland, G is a city in Germany, and U is a city in Japan. There were others, but those are the ones that were exported all over, the others seemed to produce machines for regional use only. Note that none of those are big cities. I believe that at one time there were over 100 factories worldwide.

The history of Singer Sewing Machines is a vast and interesting story.  

[Constabulary]

"G" and "D" are for Made in Germany Singers not for the City in Germany.  Singer produced in Wittenberge until 1945 in WITTENBERGE (Soviet Zone after WWII) the "D" models (D for DEUTSCHLAND) since the "W" was already occupied. After WWII and since the 1950´s Singer produced in KARLSRUHE (West Germany) the "G" (G for GERMANY) since the "K" was already occupied for Kilbowie. Singer "D" models especially the industrial type machines are hard to find - even in Germany.

However since there seems to be an interest in Singer SV models why not putting together a list of know Singer SV models? Maybe including a photo of the certain model. Thats probably easier for ISMACS to copy the collected information from just one source. At least I have no problem when they copy the information from the forum.

I once found a 29KSV3 cobbler machine and we started gathering some information in this thread.

I also have restored a Singer 34K S.V. 5

And I know someone from a German Forum who has a Singer 34K S.V. 6 which technically seems to the the same as my machine so I would guess the machines just came with different accessories.

Furthermore I have a technical bulletin for a Singer 45K S.V. 100 for corner stitching of leather cases.

But before I start listing everything I have it would be nice to know if people are at all interested in collecting information about the Singer SV models in this thread.

[LumpenDoodle2]

Having been told off for drooling over the Singer sewing machines on display at Kilbowie, I would have no objections to such info.

(Preferably with lots of photos).

[mikesc]

it would be nice to know if people are at all interested in collecting information about the Singer SV models in this thread.

Yes :)
It would make a very interesting read / resource.

[MADMAX22]

I will update this thread when I get my machine 153WSV11 with pictures and other info I can acquire from it. I can only see one difference right off the bat from the bad photos the seller had and that is a spot on the left front edge that is machined off and has two mounting holes. I can just assume it was for some special attachment. 

[jimi]

Yes Folker, it would be interesting to find out about the SV machines. i am willing to donate my machine in the name of science! haha (i mean photos!)

[jimi]

OK, Here is some info in the way of pictures. if anybody needs any more pictures then just ask. 

MODEL: 45KSV 99,S/N ES580643 - MAY 2nd 1961. lot of 200 made (stopped production of the 45k 1964) NOTABLE  DIFFERENCES: Presser foot with part# SK35594. The other possible difference is the mass on the flywheel. measures 45mm wide compared to the 45k21 flywheel which is 30mm wide. i did not manage to weigh them but as you can see by the picture the flywheel is heavier on the SV99. this is notable due to the fact that both are treadle powered and moving the SV flywheel by foot you can feel the difference.if anybody has a similar treadle maybe they can compare?. the presser foot has been worked on by the previous owner. so i think it has only had the area where the needle had been hitting welded or brazed but not 100% sure. what was it used for?? i dont know. the previous owner fixed sails but this is not the best machine for sail makers as it does not have a zig zag stitch, which i believe is what the sail makers use. the small step on the bottom of the foot would probably indicate it was used for making some kind of overlap or hem?? feed dog,shuttle and needle plate are standard 45k1 etc.. parts.

[jimi]

[jimi]

last picture is the 45k21 flywheel. hope this helps, jimi.

[jimi]

45K58

#F1015426, courtesy of John Langdon. For general saddlery, bag, portmanteau, cloth or canvas work. Drop feed, vibrating & climbing presser. Diameter of belt grooves 3 1/8” and 6”. Speed 700 s.p.m. Formerly known as 45KSV51 (and replaced 45K33 & 45K35).

 

45K54

#F1015426, courtesy of John Langdon. This treadle base came with a 45K54. The legs are 32" apart. The flywheel has a 1¾” diameter section and is 16” in diameter. Two belt pulleys: 11” & 14” dia.

http://needlebar.org/cm/displayimage.php?album=243&pid=3328#top_display_media

 so, this is from the needle bar page. some info on the SV models here. and the treadle base ,as seen above, for the 45k54 was standard, so no bigger flywheel with the 45kSV99 according to this description. that leaves just the presser foot. 

[mikesc]

@jimi..There is a type of sail called "junk sail" that was not, and still is not usually sewn with a zig-zag stitch but is sewn with one or more passes of lock-stitch which would require a stepped foot to do. A lot of sail making of other types of sail was done with lock-stitch and multiple passes up to WWII.

I read a lot of sailmaker's forums in English and French, and have a friend ( mine of information ) who is one the major sailmakers for ocean going races, his loft is around 5 kms from me.

Btw..nice clear focused close ups..love 'em.. :))

Edited August 28, 2016 by mikesc

[dikman]

Actually, graywolf, it's probably worth mentioning that again. I don't really consider that as speculation, as that very thing is mentioned in my original post. It certainly seems that some (probably not all) SV machines were considered good enough to put into production.

Jimi, nice find on that 45KSV100 corner stitcher. I always wondered what a machine would look like that could do that sort of stitching. Looks like I need to spend more time looking through the needlebar site.

I might as well repeat what I've posted elsewhere, as the info is relevant to this thread. My 111WSV77 looks the same as the 111W151-153 machines. The part numbers are all different (at least those that I could check) but it appears to match the specs of the 111W153 (foot lift/clearance/stitch length etc). I can't see any obvious differences, nor are there signs of anything else having been fitted - which doesn't mean something wasn't attached, of course. I'll try and get a couple of photos later (but the only difference to the W153 is the designation plate ).

[jimi]

Thanks dikman and Mike, junk sail?? maybe it was for this purpose?? good to know? that would make sense about the presser foot. if you see your friend mike you could maybe ask him? @Constabularydid you ever find out if the holes on the arm of your 29ksv3 were for the 2 big bobbins for binding? 

here is a video of an SV model: 

 

[Gregg From Keystone Sewing]

I was told that also SV models were designated due to insufficient materials or different materials being used during WWII.  I don't have any way to confirm this but I didn't make it up either.  Maybe someone else made it up?  

[MADMAX22]

Jimi that guy has one heck of a nice little home machine there. Amazing the difference between home machines of that time and now a days. 

Gregg good info. I could imagine there would be some changes in material during WWII. I think most industries were affected by that to some degree. 

[dikman]

That's one of the big problems with this subject, Gregg, there have been quite a few statements made about the SV designation but they are almost impossible to confirm. I'm guilty of believing something that someone stated (about a 111WSV71) until, as I learned more, I realised that he was probably only repeating something that he himself had heard but actually had no idea himself.

As far as I can figure SV's were made before, probably during and after WWII, but that doesn't necessarily mean that your statement is incorrect. Just another piece of the puzzle. Meantime, a couple of photos of my 111WSV77. I'm guessing that the additional number plate suggests it may have been part of a very large company.

 

Edited August 29, 2016 by dikman

[Constabulary]

dikman - at least your feed dog and needle plate look like the ones from a needle feed machine like 111w151

Regarding wartime machines - I know from some Adler machines of different types that the war time produced machines had fewer chrome or nickle plated parts. Some parts where black instead and the casting was much rougher. I once have restored an Adler patcher which even had a sticker or decal on it that this machine was produced in wartime. This has nothing to do with Singer SV´s but maybe explains why your machine has a black iron model # tag instead of the common brass tag.

[dikman]

It's a real pity that the records from the Bridgeport factory don't exist, as it makes it extremely difficult (if not impossible) to try and date the W machines, or even try to put them in some sort of context. As to my machine, part of me says to strip it and refurbish it and another part says to leave it as is.

[Constabulary]

depends on what you prefer - the historical value of an "as is" machine or the optical improvement and increase in value of a restored machine. I figured that all of the machines I have restored where were NOT in a condition I would like to keep + use them. And JFTC you have to sell them quickly (you never know) you have a restored machine you for sure get some more $ for it than for an "as is" or "as found" machine. But depends on the point of view.

[dikman]

Yeah, I suspect I'll end up refurbishing this one at some point as it has a fair bit of rust on it. Of all my machines this one is probably in the worst condition. I'll have to start compiling a list, and availability, of parts first.

[Constabulary]

So here is the bulletin for the Singer 45KSV100 I have - I have turned it into a PDF file. Hope you like it

Singer 45kSV100.PDF

I also have found a pictures of a Singer 34KSV4 which is almost the same as my 34KSV5 but with shorter post. The other picture is an extract from an Singer add I once have found on Ebay and cut the 34KSV5 part.

Edited August 31, 2016 by Constabulary

[dikman]

So the SV designation goes back a lot further than I thought, judging by that extract for the 34KSV5.

 

[Constabulary]

Jep - my 34KSV5 has a J prefix and dates back to 1905. It´still working very well Of course no modern post bed machine with rotary hook but it sews really good!