Is this couch real leather?

[metroplexchl]

He says it's top grain with parts peeling off. Is it fake?

[Troy I]

I would say yes it is fake--unless a very thin leather was laminated to the fabric that it is peeling off of....I'm not sure, I'm only guessing.

Maybe someone with more knowledge can help out better than me.

Edited September 11, 2016 by Troy I

[TinkerTailor]

Garbage, plain and simple. Is that leather or fabric showing through?

It could be top grain but JUST the top. Everything else was split off of the back to make crappy belts stamped with "genuine leather"

There is a big difference between proper FULL grain cowhide and top grain genuine leather.....The leather product mass manufacturers are really good at marketing garbage leather with misleading terms. This is one of the reasons why it is difficult for real leatherworkers to justify the price of their products. People don't understand how crappy all the leather in a shopping mall really is, and how much livable wage labour costs. They are expecting our prices to be what they are used to in the mall, or online, prices only sustainable by manufacturing with little regard for the environment, working conditions, worker age, or rate of pay.

That couch was made to appeal to those consumers. People with champagne taste and a beer budget.  -end rant.

[metroplexchl]

37 minutes ago, TinkerTailor said:

Garbage, plain and simple. Is that leather or fabric showing through?

It could be top grain but JUST the top. Everything else was split off of the back to make crappy belts stamped with "genuine leather"

There is a big difference between proper FULL grain cowhide and top grain genuine leather.....The leather product mass manufacturers are really good at marketing garbage leather with misleading terms. This is one of the reasons why it is difficult for real leatherworkers to justify the price of their products. People don't understand how crappy all the leather in a shopping mall really is, and how much livable wage labour costs. They are expecting our prices to be what they are used to in the mall, or online, prices only sustainable by manufacturing with little regard for the environment, working conditions, worker age, or rate of pay.

That couch was made to appeal to those consumers. People with champagne taste and a beer budget.  -end rant.

Well said, sir.  

 

Thanks all.

[metroplexchl]

What weight is chair leather usually?

[YinTx]

**** Furniture sells this crappy stuff.  They have trademarked it "durablend." They used to call it Durablend leather, now they have taken to calling it Durablend Upholstery.   If you look into consumer affairs and online reviews, you will see they have managed to earn 1 star out of 5, amazing they are still in business.  The sales folks even have a bad habit of claiming the material is "all leather" or "real leather."  Even their own extended warranty does not cover the leather from peeling, because it will and it does, just like the photo.  The material is 57% polyurethane, 26% poly/cotton, and 17% leather.  I can't tell you how many times this has lead to people asking me if I can re-cover their couch.  Most of the time, when I tell them it would cost thousands to do that, they walk away.  One customer has not... so apparently I need to learn to do upholstery leather.   Any suggestions on what the best leather types/brands are for this?

YinTx

 

[MADMAX22]

On ‎9‎/‎10‎/‎2016 at 8:36 PM, metroplexchl said:

What weight is chair leather usually?

 

On ‎9‎/‎10‎/‎2016 at 7:47 PM, TinkerTailor said:

Garbage, plain and simple. Is that leather or fabric showing through?

It could be top grain but JUST the top. Everything else was split off of the back to make crappy belts stamped with "genuine leather"

There is a big difference between proper FULL grain cowhide and top grain genuine leather.....The leather product mass manufacturers are really good at marketing garbage leather with misleading terms. This is one of the reasons why it is difficult for real leatherworkers to justify the price of their products. People don't understand how crappy all the leather in a shopping mall really is, and how much livable wage labour costs. They are expecting our prices to be what they are used to in the mall, or online, prices only sustainable by manufacturing with little regard for the environment, working conditions, worker age, or rate of pay.

That couch was made to appeal to those consumers. People with champagne taste and a beer budget.  -end rant.

 

On ‎9‎/‎10‎/‎2016 at 8:36 PM, metroplexchl said:

What weight is chair leather usually?

Argg why does the forum save quotes, was gonna add some stuff but it got covered by the time I got back and now the quotes are stuck in my reply

[MADMAX22]

Metro usually upholstery leather is going to be in the 2-4oz unless its some specialty type. But you could use whatever you want just money is the big factor and comfort/durability so on so forth.

Yintx hidehouse has a bunch of upholstery leather lines that are actual leather. I have not gotten anything from them in a while but setup a wholesale account itll save ya some. Ive been getting my motorcycle seat leather from a place out east (forgot the name) and so far its been decent. Gonna try a couple of types from the hidehouse next as similar type is the same price and they are on the west coast. Its a heck of a undertaking and its very different then working with vegtan and doing stuff like belts and wallets. A lot of little tricks of the trade per say for doing upholstery. I am still learning how to do MC seats (non tooled type).

[TinkerTailor]

2 hours ago, nstarleather said:

I work with tons (literally) of high quality upholstery leather and none of it is ever backed.  

Don't be scared off by top grain with upholstery if that's what it actually is (not bicast, bonded, or some other sneaky term). Most upholstery leather, even the high quality stuff, isn't "full grain" but that isn't a matter of quality, it's a matter or uniformity, lots of it has a light pebble pattern so it looks the same across the massive pieces they have use to make a full size cushion. 

That is actually Bicast leather or a finished split it's highly unlikely that it's top grain (even "just the top"), it doesn't make sense from a tannery perspective to shave off a thin layer of "the good stuff" to then back it with something inferior.  

They've laminated something over a layer of something else looks like the top is probably bonded. 

I am not necessarily talking about splitting to get two hides out of one, i am talking about splitting it until it is uniform thickness and bonding any that has ended up too thin to use alone, after the damage and thin spots in the hide are accounted for.

I have bought shoes that were labeled as top grain, and they were bicast. I am not an uphostery guy, To me, full grain means the leather is uncorrected and only split for thickness. but i know that the leathers are always split for weight,  I also know that a lot of it is corrected grain, or embossed to create uniformity in surface over large areas. How thick the split is is up in the air, If you cut it thin enough or are using crappy hides with thin spots, the only solution is to back it. When making the leather, it takes perfect hides to make 50-60 square feet of nice upholstery leather with a uniform 4oz without backing. Any damage, the belly, and any other stretchy areas become a problem when you are using the leather unbacked and uncorrected. The hides that are not as nice can be backed and corrected, the backing taking away the thin spots and stretch, and the paint/embossing correcting visible blemishes, making the hide worth more.

The leather that is split of the back, if it is thick enough and big enough,  will also have a grain applied with paint and pressure and be made into low quality leather accessories. They may also grind up the leather to make reconstituted leather products. Both of these types of products are labelled as genuine leather when they are sold. That is the reference I was getting to with the genuine leather logos on reconstituted products bit

I have a leather guy that sells gorgeous Italian veg leather in handbag weights. From the same tanneries he gets these 5-8 oz splits with corrected grain, that are the leftovers from splitting high end thin leather from proper thick hides. He gets them and sells them dirt cheap. They are used for costumes in film, which are usually painted and broken down to look old, and durability is not an issue, as it only has to last a few days of shooting. They are also used to stiffen thin or exotic leathers. Keep in mind, they were split off properly tanned hides so are also good leather that has no topside. Perfect for shop made bonded leathers, and great for welts in sheaths and holsters.

[electrathon]

Same exact delamination of the plastic like top coat over the fabric like bottom layer.  It's not leather.

 

[R SFraser Sr]

Since you are having such trouble determining the material.....

Just peel a piece off and set a match to it.

You'll soon find out if it is plastic or leather.

[Ed in Tx]

Gee, That looks like the leather in my Ford F150 Lariat. Garbage is the best description I can think of. Technically it is called leather but in reality it is "bonded leather" They shave off the thinnest amount possible of the hide and attach it to a piece of material with an adhesive. I am not even sure there could be a weight designation  given to the leather, maybe 1/4 oz??

[Art]

Bonded Whiskey is generally a good thing; Bonded Leather, not so much.  Real leather comes in hides and sides, Bonded Leather comes on rolls.  Leather Seats are now "Standard" in even some of the least expensive cars, a leather sofa made from real skins costs as much as my first new car; I'm Old.

Art

[impulse]

It's a case of buyer beware! I was looking at handbags in a shop recently to gain inspiration for new designs. There were some "brand name" bags which looked great for $$$. They had tags on them stating "Genuine Leather" BUT on closer inspection the only real leather was the tags themselves!!!

[HENDREFORGAN]

On 9/12/2016 at 11:21 PM, Ed in Tx said:

Gee, That looks like the leather in my Ford F150 Lariat. Garbage is the best description I can think of. Technically it is called leather but in reality it is "bonded leather" They shave off the thinnest amount possible of the hide and attach it to a piece of material with an adhesive. I am not even sure there could be a weight designation  given to the leather, maybe 1/4 oz??

Many of these  . . leather skins . . are a triple laminate construction.  The bulk of the overall thickness is virtually leather waste, often pulped and then extruded into guaranteed thickness's, in itself totally unable to provide "wear and tear".  So it gets . . plastered .  Top surface, being this is often only all the retail customer sees, is a plastic with a machine rolled grain and - unlike Henry Ford - customers can have it in any colour.  Underside is ironically often a very thin but genuine facing of leather, this is so that in applications like bags and belts the item looks and feels right .

I use a little dodge to tell if a new leather item I'm being shown is the pukka item.  Hold the leather horizontal between hands and then "flex" several times, almost as if you were trying to make it fly.  Now look at the top surface again . . does it now have clearly visible corrugations or even tunnels across it's surface?   If it does then almost certainly you've "lifted" the plastic top coat!  Homogeneous leather hide, no matter how it is split, will only have marks that will "iron out".

[kiwican]

On 9/24/2016 at 2:21 PM, HENDREFORGAN said:

I use a little dodge to tell if a new leather item I'm being shown is the pukka item.  Hold the leather horizontal between hands and then "flex" several times, almost as if you were trying to make it fly.  Now look at the top surface again . . does it now have clearly visible corrugations or even tunnels across it's surface?   If it does then almost certainly you've "lifted" the plastic top coat!  Homogeneous leather hide, no matter how it is split, will only have marks that will "iron out".

Ha! im off to the Mall to destroy inventory !

[HENDREFORGAN]

18 hours ago, kiwican said:

Ha! im off to the Mall to destroy inventory !

 . . . just be careful to ensure the market trader is looking the other way though? 

When you've done it once you'll find you've developed a certain . . compulsion . . to do it again? 

[HENDREFORGAN]

Quite by accident I found this supposedly "helpful video" on UTube . . I'm still laughing . . . during the course of her presentation the presenter proudly acclaims that anything with a GENUINE or REAL leather label has to be "real" leather as it needs to be at least 55% leather to be given that label.    55%    Now, call me Old Fashioned but isn't 55% almost only HALF? 

Maybe she was referring to the leather content of the label?  

 . . and the other tests?  Smell overcome by a wax spray so that the whiff of beeswax makes you think it's genuine hide.  Interior facing not being leather overcome by the tactic I mention above of a minute layer of leather stuck on to confuse you.  Pleased to see her advice on using my technique of, as has been wonderfully stated above, "destroying inventory" to be same as mine . . walk away.

I am looking forward to dusting off and refuelling my WW2 Ronson flame thrower and visiting our local nation wide dealership for leather furniture and applying the flame test . . .

[kiwican]

1 hour ago, HENDREFORGAN said:

I am looking forward to dusting off and refuelling my WW2 Ronson flame thrower and visiting our local nation wide dealership for leather furniture and applying the flame test

Glad to see that you would use an antique to do this!

[HazelB]

Technically, that couch may actually be top grain, but it means very little. "Top grain" and "genuine leather" are deceiving terms, and really mean nothing. Full Grain is the real stuff. 

Check out this article that explains leather types.  http://bestleather.org/leather-101-the-different-types-of-leather/