Cowboy cb341

[Kaje]

I'm in the process of turning my hobby into a business so I've been looking for a sewing machine.  I was originally thinking of getting the cowboy 3200 or consew 206rb but something in between the two would suit my work better.  I looked at the 227r but the 341 seems to be a better machine with larger bobbin and thicker sewing ability.  I typically make wallets but want to get into bags and belts as well.

Does anyone have any experience with the cowboy cb341?  They don't have it listed on the toledo industrial site but I did see a video on youtube and this website http://www.solar-leather.com/cowboy-cb341/

[bikermutt07]

Thanks for posting the link. I don't have an answer for you, but I'm glad there is a cowboy dealer within driving distance of me.

[MADMAX22]

Looks like a good machine.Looks like a 153w but beefed up with reverse and large bobbin.  Looking at there site I dig the effort with the special edition 4500 but wow is it ugly IMHO.  

[Kaje]

4 minutes ago, MADMAX22 said:

Looks like a good machine.Looks like a 153w but beefed up with reverse and large bobbin.  Looking at there site I dig the effort with the special edition 4500 but wow is it ugly IMHO.  

Wow I didn't see that special edition, certainly not to my tastes...

[Kaje]

Here is the link to the youtube video as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVJ9_3AbmO4

[TinkerTailor]

21 minutes ago, Kaje said:

Wow I didn't see that special edition, certainly not to my tastes...

Don't like that paint but i have been planning a non-standard paint job for mine for a while.....Might be death star related....

[dikman]

The 4500 S. E. - "True American style" they say........

I'm a little surprised that the 341 can handle 1/2" of leather but only up to #138 thread, otherwise seems like a nice enough machine.

[TinkerTailor]

It appears to be a juki 341 clone, it is listed on cowboys site as a 7341.

If i had my choice i would get a cowboy 7335 pfaff 335 based machine because it has a cylinder arm that is over a full inch smaller in diameter, with basically the same specs for lift and whatnot. If you are going to be limited to 138 thread anyways, might as well have more clearance.  Not sure if the 335 bobbin is smaller however.

[Uwe]

I'm under the impression that all Cowboy machines enter the country through Ryan O. Neel of Neel's Saddlery in Ohio (sad looking website but big YouTube presence with Cowboy demos) If a particular dealer doesn't carry a certain Cowboy machine, Ryan should have access to all Cowboy machines and he sells them directly, too.

I personally favour the Juki-LS 341 design over the Pfaff 335, mainly because of the vertical axis hook, comparatively huge bobbin, and descending feed dog. That slim 335 arm comes with a few compromises, I think. Each machine design has its own advantages and shortcomings, you just have to decide which ones are important to you.

Edited November 7, 2016 by Uwe

[TinkerTailor]

33 minutes ago, Uwe said:

I'm under the impression that all Cowboy machines enter the country through Ryan O. Neel of Neel's Saddlery in Ohio (sad looking website but big YouTube presence with Cowboy demos) If a particular dealer doesn't carry a certain Cowboy machine, Ryan should have access to all Cowboy machines and he sells them directly, too.

I personally favour the Juki-LS 341 design over the Pfaff 335, mainly because of the vertical axis hook, comparatively huge bobbin, and descending feed dog. That slim 335 arm comes with a few compromises, I think. Each machine design has its own advantages and shortcomings, you just have to decide which ones are important to you.

I guess i am a little biased because i already have a big 441 style machine to handle the bigger stuff, and was thinking more of a second machine to compliment what i have and not as a first. All week i have been fighting arm clearance. Serves me right for designing my stuff to the limit of what i can do. You are definitely correct on the compromises though, that's how we ended up with a thousand different machines that all do the same things just a smidgen different.

[Wizcrafts]

The reason a CB 341 might sew up to 1/2 inch has to do with it being setup with System 190 needles. Even then, I believe that the needle bar would hit the top of the raised feet at 1/2 inch elevation. I had a National 300N that I converted over to System 190. I was able to sew 7/16" of leather, maximum. Sewing any thicker would require a set of feet with lower top surface profiles.

NB: Sewing such thicknesses on a walking foot machine causes the crank that comes in from the back of the head to move higher in the head. Metal has to be removed from that area in order to let the high riding crank shaft clear the head. Basically, the machine is being converted into a "stroker."

[Kaje]

Do you think the 341 would be able to sew belts and bags?  I was hoping to use 207 thread at least for looks.  I know there is no one machine that does it all but I don't plan on making holsters or tack and the thinnest I would sew is maybe some lining leather for wallet interiors.

[bikermutt07]

19 hours ago, MADMAX22 said:

Looks like a good machine.Looks like a 153w but beefed up with reverse and large bobbin.  Looking at there site I dig the effort with the special edition 4500 but wow is it ugly IMHO.  

See, I thought it looked pretty cool. And while I can totally understand the price point of custom work. I wouldn't throw another 400 dollars at a machine that already costs well over 2 grand.

Not that it's not worth it, it is. It just isn't to me.

But I stand behind the statement that it's cool looking.

[Wizcrafts]

6 hours ago, Kaje said:

Do you think the 341 would be able to sew belts and bags?  I was hoping to use 207 thread at least for looks.  I know there is no one machine that does it all but I don't plan on making holsters or tack and the thinnest I would sew is maybe some lining leather for wallet interiors.

Since you live in Ohio, the man to ask is Bob Kovar, in Toledo, at Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines.

[Mark842]

32 minutes ago, bikermutt07 said:

See, I thought it looked pretty cool. And while I can totally understand the price point of custom work. I wouldn't throw another 400 dollars at a machine that already costs well over 2 grand.

Not that it's not worth it, it is. It just isn't to me.

But I stand behind the statement that it's cool looking.

One thing I learned long ago when it comes to designing and selling new products. Never throw out a product idea because you don't like how it looks. For every person that doesn't like the way something looks there is probably one that will love it.

 The paint job is not to my tastes but I don't think it is ugly. I just wouldn't pay extra for it.

[MADMAX22]

Not to mention I think its funny they charge extra for it. Ya look at old singers and others from way back and they came standard with some good looks and embellishments. Just how it was. There is very little art in modern manufacturing because of the bottom dollar and what not. Just gotta hope it last a few years before it gets thrown in the ocean. Now if we could just get them to properly clone some needle and awl machines that would be fantastic but not gonna happen. 

[bikermutt07]

Well Maxx, it is a custom paint job. They mention each one being unique. And at 400 dollars for a custom paint job, it is plenty reasonable. I imagine this is something that that particular Dallas distributor is outsourcing locally. In the south custom pinstriping is pretty popular with the rat rod community. It's not too far into left field to imagine some of those folks being into leather work. They like to do things themselves and love odd embellishments. So, I can see why this is being offered.

[MADMAX22]

8 minutes ago, bikermutt07 said:

Well Maxx, it is a custom paint job. They mention each one being unique. And at 400 dollars for a custom paint job, it is plenty reasonable. I imagine this is something that that particular Dallas distributor is outsourcing locally. In the south custom pinstriping is pretty popular with the rat rod community. It's not too far into left field to imagine some of those folks being into leather work. They like to do things themselves and love odd embellishments. So, I can see why this is being offered.

Yeah I can see that if they do it themselves. Ya sure they do it or is it shipped over here like that? If they gotta pull it apart and strip it or more then likely spray over it sure. 

If it came from the overseas factory like that well I doubt it cost anywhere near $400 to do. Its easy to do things like that when you dont have the EPA and just dump all your crap in the river 

[Colt W Knight]

Biker leather guys and custom hit rod interior guys would probably love that paint job. If someone asked me to paint a guitar like that, I'd probably ask 500-600$

[bikermutt07]

1 hour ago, MADMAX22 said:

Yeah I can see that if they do it themselves. Ya sure they do it or is it shipped over here like that? If they gotta pull it apart and strip it or more then likely spray over it sure. 

If it came from the overseas factory like that well I doubt it cost anywhere near $400 to do. Its easy to do things like that when you dont have the EPA and just dump all your crap in the river 

They mentioned only having a dozen of them made up and I haven't seen them on anyone else's site. That leads me to believe it was done locally. But, it's only a guess.

[TinkerTailor]

14 hours ago, bikermutt07 said:

See, I thought it looked pretty cool. And while I can totally understand the price point of custom work. I wouldn't throw another 400 dollars at a machine that already costs well over 2 grand.

Not that it's not worth it, it is. It just isn't to me.

But I stand behind the statement that it's cool looking.

 

10 hours ago, bikermutt07 said:

They mentioned only having a dozen of them made up and I haven't seen them on anyone else's site. That leads me to believe it was done locally. But, it's only a guess.

Here is my take: If you work in a factory, garage, basement, wigwam or mud hut, you want bang for your buck and chrome don't get you home. Buy beige.

Now if you have a storefront or a hot-rod shop or any other environment where people can watch you work, a decorated machine can actually increase business. A leather shop with a 29k patcher in the window is just cooler than one without. The pedestrians know that it is a leather machine, and it lends authenticity to the business. This will bring in customers so the machine pays for itself, even if it is never used because it is not the right machine for most tasks.

The same goes for putting new machines in a leather shop. Beige machines next to old singers stand out. People expect to see tough old iron machines painted black in leather and shoe shops. By making this machine black and putting on some gold pinstriping it harkens back to the old days. In a retail environment, this paint job could actually make you money over the basic beige. To a business, 400-500 bucks as a one time cost to increase customer traffic and the bottom line a percent or three is well worth it.

My bet is they ordered a few machines in black with an upgraded gold nitrided hook and just pinstriped them on this side of the pacific, much the same way as cobra orders in orange/bronze paint and puts on stickers. Pinstriping is actually pretty fast and does not require the setup of a spray job.

That being said, for the money I have seen much nicer pinstriping, and for 500 bucks, I know a guy I could get to pinstripe MY logo on my machine. Plus if it is a retail establishment, a sign advertising the pinstriping artist helps his/her bottom line and may make the job cheaper. The right hand washes the left.

[brmax]

I remember seeing that black 4500, that was pretty neat!. I can do black but would rather stick with chrome, I mean if I get a choice.

It may be gone as it has been awhile since that the deal was started and may have been as ya said just a small count done up.

Rock on with the pin stripes though.

  anyway

That 341 Cowboy hook looks the same as my Juki1341, if it is? I believe the cap/bobbin case doesn't have a thread slot/path big enough for 207 thread so will have to ask the dealers if any mods need or were made.  I would sure welcome that info, as I guess that hook style has been around awhile, and so a lot of experience there, and I could use a extra cap.

As Wiz mentioned and spot on as usual all the 15 series Juki's I know of will raise to about1/2 with 135-17 but will hit, as the needle bar wants to go down a bit more on a stroke when raised that high. The Juki 1341,  I picked up is the same head as the 15 series really and fits the same bill.

I understand many feelings of the long 190, and struggled with the thought of change and its issues with finding available leather needles when getting along farther that direction.  And so with some other stuff I do and plans for the foam, batting etc. etc.  I have 190 in 3 heads with about a 1/16 maybe a hair more clearance at the needle bar now to the foot when toped out and no issues.  As for now I haven't worried here with changing the 1341 yet?, but I sure don't like hearing any bump, so I don't go there.

I'm not positive but I did think the previous Juki 341 came with another style hook and thought may be an advantage.  I would have to work a bit more to study the archives and figure that conclusion for my final op. I did consider it would be great if it could be the same as a 1508, fwiw.  Anyway that was my thoughts before this purchase option came up and the choice was over.

The particular hooks had me wondering with some other brands other members had interest in and talked about here. A key point I liked no-matter was the topside adjustment knobs on machines in this category.  So as always these machine things keeps me interested in whatever comes out and whatever color they paint them, its a machine and that's cool.

All I know is I cant do without one of these cylinder arms for stuff I do, many flat projects I just get up and go to the cylinder then return. Its fact I just feel this place has been there with all the answers Consistently. Thanks n thumbs up

No doubt they all need reducers and the model ask about is great for the millions of dollars already proven in its designed ability.

Good day

Floyd

[CowboyBob]

13 hours ago, bikermutt07 said:

They mentioned only having a dozen of them made up and I haven't seen them on anyone else's site. That leads me to believe it was done locally. But, it's only a guess.

Yes,they are a special order (someones great idea to be different) BUT the machine didn't impress me to stock any so I passed.We don't get many people that want to pay more for a machine than they have to & we always get calls everyday from people wanting used ones for less $$.

[SolarLeatherMachines]

The custom paint was our idea how to celebrate Cowboy's 15th Anniversary.  We didn't market it that way, it was more of an internal thing.  The pin striping was done by Wizard Pinstriping in Ohio.  I really like it.  And Bob is right: On the showroom floor, most customers would buy our standard 4500.  However, at the shows I never wheeled one home.   The titanium nitride made the machine operation extremely smooth, which I really liked.    It's not a machine for a price sensitive market, but we get a lot of guys who want something "cool".  We have lots of standard 4500s for those that want them.  

[bikermutt07]

2 hours ago, SolarLeatherMachines said:

The custom paint was our idea how to celebrate Cowboy's 15th Anniversary.  We didn't market it that way, it was more of an internal thing.  The pin striping was done by Wizard Pinstriping in Ohio.  I really like it.  And Bob is right: On the showroom floor, most customers would buy our standard 4500.  However, at the shows I never wheeled one home.   The titanium nitride made the machine operation extremely smooth, which I really liked.    It's not a machine for a price sensitive market, but we get a lot of guys who want something "cool".  We have lots of standard 4500s for those that want them.  

Someday when I buy a machine I'll be contacting you guys.