Sticks

Casting smooth feed dog in brass.

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Hi there guys,

I am finding it tricky to locate one of these without the teeth and with a smaller hole so I am having this cast in brass or bronze.

I know I can fill in the teeth but since id like a smaller hole as well I thought I would try it.

I will also have the hole made only just large enough for the largest needle I use  (140/22) to pass through.

Does anyone foresee any issues with this .?

thnx guys.

findTile-602c61ffa0ccf3a7-100879730.jpg

Edited by Sticks

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fill the riffles with JB WELD - done  ;)

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4 hours ago, Sticks said:

Hi there guys,

I am finding it tricky to locate one of these without the teeth and with a smaller hole so I am having this cast in brass or bronze.

I know I can fill in the teeth but since id like a smaller hole as well I thought I would try it.

I will also have the hole made only just large enough for the largest needle I use  (140/22) to pass through.

Does anyone foresee any issues with this .?

thnx guys.

findTile-602c61ffa0ccf3a7-100879730.jpg

You can drill and ream the original hole, press in a brass plug and redrill it to the smaller size. A press fit should be fine here. Also, brazing the teeth with brass and filing everything flat would be less work than casting and likely give you a stronger part because the core is still steel.

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I agree with the others here, and is a perfect time for each process in testing, and sure either can be used.

I can see a great product with both really, and can only add to both with the cleaning the feed dog before hand with alcohol or something very well.

good luck

Floyd

 

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You'd likely have to machine the raw casting on a mill anyways to get the dimensions and clearances just right. I'm not sure doing a casting first would really be an improvement over milling a part from solid metal stock. I plan to figure out how to make some small parts on a CNC mill over the next few months. Smooth feed dogs make great trial candidates.

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Agree with Uwe that to machine a mold, cast the part and then clean the casting is far more trouble than machining from the solid, although an investment casting using lost wax/styrofoam may do pretty well in terms of accuracy. Brass is a children's metal and is dead easy to machine.

One note about smooth feed dogs....the natural lubricity of brass/bronze makes for good bearings and slides, and its not particularly good for transporting things like leather without some texture....ask me how I know.  

 

-DC

29k_brass.jpg

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I figure that the original parts are made from steel for a reason - longevity and the fact that they can be hardened. I wonder about using softer brass in the long term. When I re-shaped a couple of feet I had to use a grinder and belt grinder 'cos a hacksaw and files wouldn't touch them. Don't know about feed dogs but I'm guessing they might be just as hard?

You could certainly grind the teeth down as much as possible then fill in what is left with JBWeld. Seems the easiest way to me. As for the hole size, just how much bigger is it than a 140/22 needle? Have you had problems with that combination already?

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Tin the thing with 45 or 50% silver solder then fill with 5%. Redrill the needle hole

 

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I would go as Darren said or even just solder (easy to file or wire brush a bit out later if needed) but I point out to remember the little cut away behind the hole needs to be cleared for good looking bottom stitches. It is a mess otherwise. I think you are wanting to stitch lighter weight leather due to you wanting the hole tighter and that will work but be cautious not to get too tight as there could be a lot of broken needles coming up.Regards Brian

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It's hard to find, but 240112R is a regular feed dog, for size 20~22 needle, that is rubberized.  I do not have these on hand and have no idea if I can still get these.

240112T is the same but with Teflon coating with teeth, I don't think this is the one you are looking for.

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Wow,

 thnx for your replies guys.

I do understand the filling etc would be relatively simple as i have done it with the feet.

However, since I have an excellent foundry guy close to me in London who cast these buckles for me, the only real inconvenience to me is to post him my original feed dog and he will do the rest.

He will also have made an investment mould so I can always order more on a whim.!

I am pretty sure the bronze he uses will be strong enough for this.

I would also like to sell them since there's an obvious need for them.!

He will get an EXACT replica of the original with every little detail;..He makes most of my buckles.

I have told him I am in a rush so the whole process should take a week.

In fact,,I plan to get feet done and test them out. Im sure there s a market for what I have seen.

ps..the castings are polished when complete. These buckles had the patina added afterwards hence the antiquing.

il_570xN.739034463_q0rp.jpg

il_570xN.742467710_dfgb.jpg

Edited by Sticks

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16 hours ago, SARK9 said:

Agree with Uwe that to machine a mold, cast the part and then clean the casting is far more trouble than machining from the solid, although an investment casting using lost wax/styrofoam may do pretty well in terms of accuracy. Brass is a children's metal and is dead easy to machine.

One note about smooth feed dogs....the natural lubricity of brass/bronze makes for good bearings and slides, and its not particularly good for transporting things like leather without some texture....ask me how I know.  

 

-DC

29k_brass.jpg

Hi,

 so do you think the smooth bronze or brass dogs wont feed properly.?

 

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14 hours ago, dikman said:

I figure that the original parts are made from steel for a reason - longevity and the fact that they can be hardened. I wonder about using softer brass in the long term. When I re-shaped a couple of feet I had to use a grinder and belt grinder 'cos a hacksaw and files wouldn't touch them. Don't know about feed dogs but I'm guessing they might be just as hard?

You could certainly grind the teeth down as much as possible then fill in what is left with JBWeld. Seems the easiest way to me. As for the hole size, just how much bigger is it than a 140/22 needle? Have you had problems with that combination already?

Hi ,

 im not aware of whether I have had problems with the hole in the above shown feed dog as that is the only one I have tried.

Im just trying to optimize the machine specifically for the very fine work I plan to do.

A couple of mm more support could hurt..Obviously assuming there s enough clearance .

I plan to reduce the dia only by approx 1.5mm.

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1 hour ago, Gregg From Keystone Sewing said:

It's hard to find, but 240112R is a regular feed dog, for size 20~22 needle, that is rubberized.  I do not have these on hand and have no idea if I can still get these.

240112T is the same but with Teflon coating with teeth, I don't think this is the one you are looking for.

Ok if I can get that 240112 dog would be good I guess.

I will look around for that.

Can you guys confirm the rubber dog will not leave marks and feeds better than smooth.?

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34 minutes ago, Sticks said:

Ok if I can get that 240112 dog would be good I guess.

I will look around for that.

Can you guys confirm the rubber dog will not leave marks and feeds better than smooth.?

Rubber feed dogs feed excellent, and leave no marks. That's what they were made for. 

Regards, Eric

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Just now, gottaknow said:

Rubber feed dogs feed excellent, and leave no marks. That's what they were made for. 

Regards, Eric

thnx Eric,

I guess it adds to the mystery as to why they're so hard to find.

Just called College Sewing who have none.

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So I called quite a few companies both in UK and US who have none of these.

Does anyone have any idea where one can be purchased.?

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They can be special ordered from Universal Sewing Supply.

Regards, Eric

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If not considering the mentioned silver solder yourself, you might consider Sloan on the east coast or another machinist shop in Denver both catering to the sew machine trade.

It may be an option for the dealers here, but its clearly a custom thing and may well lead to further interest.

good luck

Floyd

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7 hours ago, brmax said:

If not considering the mentioned silver solder yourself, you might consider Sloan on the east coast or another machinist shop in Denver both catering to the sew machine trade.

It may be an option for the dealers here, but its clearly a custom thing and may well lead to further interest.

good luck

Floyd

Hi,

 its clear that you guys have so many more options in the US for these things.

I located one rubber version but the post was approx 90usd to London lol.

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22 hours ago, Gregg From Keystone Sewing said:

It's hard to find, but 240112R is a regular feed dog, for size 20~22 needle, that is rubberized.  I do not have these on hand and have no idea if I can still get these.

240112T is the same but with Teflon coating with teeth, I don't think this is the one you are looking for.

I did not know the exact numbers but I would not have bothered looking if I did because so many variations are "listed" but only exist if you want to order 1000.

There is a company in Taiwan that has drawings and tooling for just about any 31 or 42 class wear part and will happily make them - if you want 1000.......

As I deal in a lot of unusual parts people ask me for things such as 31k roller feed wheels and get upset when I say "no" because they looked up the part number and found 10 listings - all "not in stock

 

 

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On 12/12/2016 at 9:53 AM, Sticks said:

Hi,

 so do you think the smooth bronze or brass dogs wont feed properly.?

 

The smooth foot I posted a picture of was one I made for my 29B patcher-type machine and it was not really up to the task...but they can be sort of marginal feeding anyway. Your needlefeed type should really be less fussy, but you may have to go up on the foot pressure to get nice even stitches.  As some suggested, you may just want to look at:

https://sewcat.com/singer-240112r-feed-dog.html

-DC

Edited by SARK9
spelling

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Sticks, something else I just thought of regarding using brass/bronze for the feed dog (this may not apply to you, but it certainly does to me :wacko:). I've snapped the odd needle or two (or three) when I've inadvertently put pressure on the leather I'm sewing and the needle has been forced sideways just a little, resulting in the needle missing the hole in the feed dog and hitting the metal instead! Not nice! If a hardened needle can mark a hardened feed dog I hate to think what it will do to softer brass. The same may apply to filling the feed dog hole with silver brazing (or whatever) and re-drilling a smaller hole, if a hardened needle starts contacting/rubbing the sides of that hole it won't take long to elongate the hole.

It may not be a problem for you, and no reason not to try it, but something to think about.

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13 minutes ago, dikman said:

Sticks, something else I just thought of regarding using brass/bronze for the feed dog (this may not apply to you, but it certainly does to me :wacko:). I've snapped the odd needle or two (or three) when I've inadvertently put pressure on the leather I'm sewing and the needle has been forced sideways just a little, resulting in the needle missing the hole in the feed dog and hitting the metal instead! Not nice! If a hardened needle can mark a hardened feed dog I hate to think what it will do to softer brass. The same may apply to filling the feed dog hole with silver brazing (or whatever) and re-drilling a smaller hole, if a hardened needle starts contacting/rubbing the sides of that hole it won't take long to elongate the hole.

It may not be a problem for you, and no reason not to try it, but something to think about.

Hi,

 yes , I see what you are saying. I have been wondering why my needle has the tendency to migrate towards the left of the hole and not dead centre.

Maybe having the brass/bronze dog will force me to pay extra attention to this. 

I wonder if this is a timing issue.?

Anyway I have just filled in my teeth with epoxy and will try it out in the morning. I am actually reluctant to be without my machine for the week it will take to have this cast.If it works well I may just use it as it is.

That company above wants 60usd to post the part to London. 

 

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1 hour ago, Sticks said:

That company above wants 60usd to post the part to London. 

 

I must need to get out more. That part weighs a fraction of an ounce and could easily be packaged in a standard envelope with a 90 cent postage fee....

-DC

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