clivel Report post Posted January 26, 2017 I am busy making my first item, a wallet. As I expected this to be mostly a learning exercise I chose the cheapest leather I could find, some veg tanned belly. For the outside I used 1.6mm (4 oz) and for the inner card holder sleeves 1.2mm (3 oz). As I had never saddle stitched before I spent some time on youtube. After watching Ian Atkinson's stitching video I decided that using Japanese diamond pricking irons to punch all the way through would be far easier initially than also learning to use the awl at the same time. Learning to use an awl could then come later once I had the stitching basics. I made a stitching pony while waiting for the items I had ordered online to arrive. I had ordered 3mm irons and a small stitching awl from LeatherCraftTools.com and I also bought some John James size 4 needles and some 0.8mm Ritza 25 thread. The first photo shows the wallet punched ready to stitch and the needles threaded and locked along with the pricking iron and awl. However, even though I made sure to punch all the way through, the holes on the back side closed up almost completely once I withdrew the pricking iron so I ended up having to use the awl anyway. Could that be because of the leather I am using, or what else would cause the holes to close? Stitching was not easy, even after using the awl on each hole and immediately inserting the needle, it took a fair amount of force to get the needle through. Which leads to my next problem, as can be seen in the second photo. The knot behind the needle slowly closed up, and even though I stopped periodically to try and open the knot, the knot eventually closed up completely causing a lump behind the needle and the only way I could finish my stitching was by using a pair of pliers to pull the needle through. So how do I prevent the knot from closing, or am I using the wrong combination of thread size, leather thickness, hole spacing, awl size? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Clive Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johnv474 Report post Posted February 16, 2017 Don't tie a knot. Thread your needle, and point the needle back toward the long part of the thread with the thread on a table. Poke the tip of the needle through the thread. Pull the short end of the thread so the pierced part of the thread goes up the needle. Pull the needle all the way through. Now repeat that. You will end up with thread running through your needle and it will look a bit like a dollar sign. It's called "locking the thread" and creates a much smaller wad of thread when you go to pull the thread through your holes. Using a knot technically works, as in it functions, but what you have discovered is the big reason why it is not the preferred approach--the need for pliers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
clivel Report post Posted February 16, 2017 Johnv474, Thanks very much for the response. I probably didn't really explain it well, but I do "lock the thread" exactly as you describe which I hoped was visible in the first photo. What happens however, is that as I sew the part of the thread that is pierced is pushed along until it touches the needle forming a knot against the needle as can be seen in the second photo. I have tried using a larger awl, this helps somewhat, but I am still having problems with this. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks, Clive Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YinTx Report post Posted February 16, 2017 Clive, Try locking the thread twice (pierce with needle twice) instead of just once as you have, as John suggested. Waxing the whole thread/needle attachment area with beeswax also seems to help prevent it from sliding in my experience. Also, you may have a bit of a large needle for your hole size as you suspect: what thread/needle/awl size combination are you using? YinTx Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mattsbagger Report post Posted February 16, 2017 Try leaving more in front of the pierce. I leave 1.5 inch or so instead of the .5 inchar and that solved my problem. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
clivel Report post Posted February 16, 2017 YinTx and Mattsbagger, Thanks for some great advice, unfortunately I will have to wait until the weekend before I have a chance to try out your suggestions. I am using 3mm pitch Japanese diamond irons followed by a Kyoshin Elle "small" stitching awl from leathercrafttools.com with John James size 4 needles and 0.8mm Tiger thread. Clive Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jack142 Report post Posted February 16, 2017 (edited) Clive, I use my wing dividers to evenly space my holes, then I lightly hit them with a awl that I ground the tip narrower and sharp, then I drill the holes with a small drill bit on my dremel tool. I go all the way through. the holes open up real well. I also bees wax my thread ( and not a lot of wax ) oh the awl, I ground the tip narrow about a inch or so up the awl so its the same size going through both pieces of leather. I find even after I drill I sometimes have to clear the hole with my awl. I hope this helps I should also add, I can run the needle though the next to the last hole and under the next to last stitch with no problem Edited February 16, 2017 by Jack142 add pic Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YinTx Report post Posted February 17, 2017 I think that is a bit too small of an awl for 0.8mm Tiger thread. Can't say on the needles... I think I typically use a smaller one.. YinTx Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bigfoote Report post Posted February 17, 2017 1 hour ago, YinTx said: I think that is a bit too small of an awl for 0.8mm Tiger thread. Can't say on the needles... I think I typically use a smaller one.. YinTx I agree with Yin Tx, the thread may be a little large. Also to avoid the knot tightening, don't pull your thread tight with the needles, pull on the thread instead. I suspect you are pulling with the needles, but maybe I am wrong? Are those the European or diamond style chisels? The diamond ones work way better. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
clivel Report post Posted February 17, 2017 Thanks everyone for the great advice - plenty of options to experiment with over the weekend. I am using the diamond style chisels. Clive Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thornton Report post Posted March 6, 2017 I don't knot or lock my thread behind the needle. I leave a longer tail and pull on the thread to tighten as has been mentioned above. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brianm77 Report post Posted March 6, 2017 (edited) Here is a close up of locking the thread without a knot, that someone was describing above EDIT --- I pass the needle through the thread 3 times instead of twice. Only because my daughter was stitching one time and needle slipped off when the loop pulled out Edited March 6, 2017 by Brianm77 Added something. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sanch Report post Posted March 28, 2017 On 2/16/2017 at 5:48 PM, Jack142 said: Clive, I use my wing dividers to evenly space my holes, then I lightly hit them with a awl that I ground the tip narrower and sharp, then I drill the holes with a small drill bit on my dremel tool. I go all the way through. the holes open up real well. I also bees wax my thread ( and not a lot of wax ) oh the awl, I ground the tip narrow about a inch or so up the awl so its the same size going through both pieces of leather. I find even after I drill I sometimes have to clear the hole with my awl. I hope this helps I should also add, I can run the needle though the next to the last hole and under the next to last stitch with no problem You're doing a whole lot of extra work with that Dremel you should be able to make all of your stitching holes with an awl but as they say to each his own! There are many ways to skin a cat Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
