Broken Singer 31K32

[torrbuidhe]

I bought a Singer 31K32 and it arrived damaged. This is the significant damage. Is it terminal?

The machine still sews for hand wheeling it.

Neil

PS,  this is the right hand end of the feed rock shaft.

Edited March 27, 2017 by torrbuidhe

[Diyer]

I hope you can claim for the damage. I presume it was dropped? I do not know your machine, but if it has a cast iron body, you need a welding company that specializes in this sort of work. I would imagine the machine would have to be completely stripped.It might be possible to peg, and drill and tap the damaged piece back on.

[torrbuidhe]

It was badly packed in a cardboard box, 2 ply card with two more layers inside, completely inadequate for a sewing machine. Welding sounds like it would be a very expensive job, it's a small piece for any type of repair and I keep thinking about the vibrations of running at even a modest 600 or 1200 spm.

It's a terrible shame, the machine is an almost mint 1929 treadle version (the bobbin winder was snapped as well). The japanning is unworn and glossy on the bed.

Neil

[Constabulary]

Too bad...

Striping and welding is too expensive I´d say. I would drill 2 or 3 small holes in the casting and the broken piece fill them with JB Weld push dowel pins JB Weld filled holes and glue it. Not much you can do beside welding or trying to glue it.

If you buy a sewing machine head and have it shipped by parcel service - always ask the seller if he can put 1.5" thick styrofoam plates on either side top and bottom of the box - pay for that extra packaging and you should be on the safe side. I know its too late but...

Edited March 27, 2017 by Constabulary

[MADMAX22]

Preheat and use the correct rod for welding. Its not overly specialized just requires some pre planning. In all honesty that's such a small area I am not sure pre heating would be that necessary.

Probably only have to remove that one bracket/rod and cover everything else. I think the harder part would be reworking the threads and or ensuring the line up and tightness of the cracked portion thru the threads.

Personally I would ground that broken foot down flat (will loose the foot support) then drill and tap two holes on the top and one on the bottom then screw the broken piece on, use some locktite and leave it be.

[CowboyBob]

You can run it the way it is,if it broke off any higher than that it would be bad.You can braze it with a torch,I would leave the bolt in there & just braze the bottom piece back on it,if you wanted to weld it with electric ,you need a nickle rod & v-grind all along the area to be welded & then pre-heat both sides or else you risk having it crack when it cools.Also clamp it while welding or brazing so it doesn't move.

[torrbuidhe]

Thanks

I think Singer used proprietary thread pitches so that would be another complication with welding. I'm 200 miles from any industrial sewing machine places so anything specialized is a non starter.

Grinding the foot flat makes sense, I hadn't thought of that. It's still a small piece to work with though. What are the stresses here anyway? There's the movement of the rock shaft and the locknut on the rock shaft screw.

It came from Berlin, the seller seems to be some sort of antiques dealer, so they should know about cast iron.

[Constabulary]

I probably have a bobbin winder for this machine but not sure... will check...

Edited March 27, 2017 by Constabulary

[Constabulary]

I think this is the one... or?

[gottaknow]

I'm with Bob. If it were mine, I'd braze it in a few spots and call it good.

Regards, Eric

[torrbuidhe]

Thanks Bob and Eric (and everybody else). It's good it's not too serious, I didn't want to keep the machine only for it to fail after a bit of use.

It sounds like the repairs not too critical, I can't braze but I could manage screws, dowels and epoxy. I'm sure I can find someone to braze iron up here, though not somebody with any experience of sewing machines.

I'll have to see what happens with ebay and the seller, the cheap option looks better unless I can get a refund to spend on repairs.

Thanks for finding the bobbin winder Constabulary, it looks like the right one. I'll be using the machine with a motor so I don't need the winder, but I wanted to keep it for possible future use. I'll get back to you when I hear from ebay.

 

Neil

 

[dikman]

Considering it went from Berlin to Scotland, in a cardboard box (!), I'd say you're lucky that's all that broke!!!

I'm sure you could find someone who can braze it, might not look too pretty and the heat will affect the paint finish a bit but at least the repair will be out of sight.

[Diyer]

As this is an old machine, presumably it was originally used with a treadle. If you are using a motor, if it was a servomotor, there would be much less vibration. Any of the machines I have bought have had some screws etc. put in with an impact driver, so as to resist the vibrations caused by a clutch motor.

From what is visible, you could possibly find out what the thread size and pitch is by measuring.Line boring is going to be expensive.The ease or not of a welded or brazed repair will depend on whether the material is cast iron or cast steel. That is going to be either a lab test or there are some DIY methods.

[HENDREFORGAN]

I don't want to sound defeatist but welding or brazing may not work, we had a similar thing happen on our early 20 C Singer 136w 104 post stitcher.  The trimming blade works off the side shafts and is held by a casting which, ending in a cleft, is held tight by pressure from a large machine screw.  One too many adjustments meant that, after many decades of load, the casting broke and right through where the bolt went too . . not unlike yours.

I asked an engineer friend to braze it - he's good at that - but that repair lasted barely days.  So I had another engineering friend TiG weld it with the correct welding rod - he's good at that - but the repair only lasted a few weeks.  In both cases the welded seam simply came apart along the original line . . the damn lump of cast iron simply refused to be stuck back together and accept even limited load.

Finally I had one of my engineering pals above machine up a whole new replacement in steel but, and do note this with your own Singer, he found he simply couldn't find the exact thread pitch to match the original machine screw . . my new piece has an M8 hex key headed machine screw instead.

So what I'm saying is that of all the above the repair you should try first is the drill and tap physical plugs that permit the original break line to sit back together tight . . if that fails you can still try welding and/or brazing . . but once you start with those if the repair fails you'll be further away from what you wish than you want.

[Evo160K]

It might be useful to mention that having insurance on a package doesn't automatically mean you will collect.  An antique fan collector friend received one recently through FedEx that was broken, FedEx refused the claim stating the fan was improperly packed.  The pictures obviously showed it was badly packed.  The buyer and the seller worked it out between them.  So the morale of the story is, the shipper needs to be fully aware the item must be packed properly....insurance apparently doesn't cover negligence on the part of the seller.

[Constabulary]

Absolutely agree with EVO!!!

As I said in an earlier thread - its easy to blame the shipping Co. but most of the time it is the sellers fault who poorly packs up this kind of heavy stuff.

I just bought a Singer head from southern Germany and told the seller to use 40mm styrofoam plates on all sides. He used just 30mm styrofoam plates (10mm less make a difference) and the machine feet punched through 30mm styrofoam on the bottom side. If he doubled the plates on the bottom side (as he did on all other sides) it would have been fine. He also did not stuff the space enough and even used air pillows (does not make much sense for heavy items). So even when you tell people how to they often do not listen or think they know better or think their packaging is sufficient. Machine fortunately arrived undamaged but the packaging was not properly done for a heavy sewing machine head.

Shipping small and / or lightweight stuff is easy (most of the times) but shipping heavy things or larger things that can easily break can be a challenge. Styrofoam flakes and air pillows are nice but are totally nonsense for heavy items like sewing machines.

[gottaknow]

My favorite packing material is fabric inside a wood crate. I do of course have an endless supply of 26oz..wool which is ideal. 

As for the broken cast iron, I've been brazing it for almost 40 years. The mistake most people make is trying to do a continuous seam with lots of heat and a large tip, (like a number 2). I use a number 0 tip concentrating on strategic points along the break. I cut a V along the fracture as well as short ones across the break. I also braze cast using less oxygen than you would for brazing steel. Usually 5psi on the acetylene and 7psi on the oxygen. That way you don't blow the molten rod out of the puddle. As soon as it flows remove the heat and let it cool.  

Regards, Eric 

[CowboyBob]

I'm with Eric & have welded probably well over 100 machines over the years & don't know of any failures yet,with proper gringing & pre-heating a weld will hold.I've only brazed small parts & use nickle rod on cast.When using nickle rod it's best to peen it as it cools & try to let it cool slowly or it will break the bond of the weld & cast.

 

[torrbuidhe]

Hi everybody, 

the machine was made in Scotland in 1929 and the journey back home nearly killed it. That's over 1400 miles from Berlin, though as Constabulary said it wasn't packed for any sort of journey at all. It's an ebay purchase so I'll see where I get with them.

There are almost no industrial machines that turn up in northern Scotland, just an odd standard flatbed Brother or equivalent over the years

Do I understand you right Bob, you're saying it would work even without reattaching the broken piece? I'll look for somebody to braze in together anyway, can't guarantee I'll find somebody willing to do it though. People repairing iron up here will be doing engine blocks and implement seats. If I find somebody I'll show them this thread. Epoxy and screws is still a possibility though.

I presume the forces in this area are pretty low, though the shaft is rocking with every stitch which is small movement but could easily be 10 or 20 times a second sewing fabric. I've ruled out any adjustment of the rock shaft from the broken end whatever repair it ends up with

Thanks, Neil

[fredk]

Just did a quick scan of this thread.

If the there is no pressure on the broken part; the idea of pegging and JB wedl [aka chemical metal] might work

Or search out someone who repairs vintage car engines and gear boxes; they usually have the facillities for stitch welding cast iron

If you're looking any decent sewing machines try this place in Staffordshire, I got my 15k from them and I'm about to order another diffrerent machine. Good packing, serviced before its sent, good back up;

http://stores.ebay.co.uk/SEWING4EVERYONE?_trksid=p2047675.l2563

[mikesc]

"stitch welding" will work on engine blocks and gear boxes ( mostly it is a way to seal cracks in the walls of them )..but not a small surface area part like that, which is subject to stresses..but as Bob and Eric have said careful prep , pre heating and nickel rod welding with spot points to begin with ( rather than all at once from one end of the break to the other ) should do it fine..

Used to be a whole load of small specialised workshops around Bilston ( Staffs ) who could do this kind of work "with their eyes shut"..

[kellyblues]

Take it from someone who has handled a good bit of machines with very similar issues. Your best bet it to JB Weld it. I can weld cast,or braze it. You cause more problems than you are trying to fix by heating that machine up enough to braze or weld it. Oil and grease that's been in places for years will run out and the machine will be very sloppy. You will spend a stupid amount of time adjusting everything. And that thread is proprietary. I have all of the singer taps and dies though I don't loan them out. JB it or make a bracket and move on.

[torrbuidhe]

20 minutes ago, mikesc said:

"stitch welding" will work on engine blocks and gear boxes ( mostly it is a way to seal cracks in the walls of them )..but not a small surface area part like that, which is subject to stresses..but as Bob and Eric have said careful prep , pre heating and nickel rod welding with spot points to begin with ( rather than all at once from one end of the break to the other ) should do it fine..

Used to be a whole load of small specialised workshops around Bilston ( Staffs ) who could do this kind of work "with their eyes shut"..

Any idea what this might cost?

Specialist engineering up here means the oil industry or nuclear decommissioning, there's not the population to support much else.

[mikesc]

JB Weld = brand name of an epoxy resin two part "mix"( with a light "charge" of metallic dust )? ..if so.. it wont hold up..unless the two parts are also drilled through either side of the shaft and then the holes tapped and the parts bolted through together so that the bearing shaft saddle is then splinted or pinned together..and even then..
With real welding..the grease and oil may run, so..repack re grease and oil..better still is to fully strip ( disassemble ) the machine, taking loads of pictures along the way so as to know what goes where when putting it all back..and then weld the break as per Eric and Bob..

You wouldn't two part epoxy resin ( no matter what the manufacturers claim their product can do ) a crank or a camshaft end bearing saddle on a car , or any motor ,and expect it to hold up..

edit...just seen your post..sending it to Bilston ( if they still do that kind of work ) means more "transport"..try to find some one who welds / repairs cast iron stoves or cast iron antiques..or even an experienced sculptor who welds, or repairs or restores bronze, or cast iron statues..

Cost ..no idea..haven't lived in the UK for near 30 years, but I'd be surprised if the actual welding cost you more than the price of a bottle of "leapfrog" or Talisker storm"..some of the small outfits who work welding around rigs or nuke stations can do this kind of thing while watching the rugby on the TV and playing darts..if you take it to them stripped and ready..ask around..

2nd edit..if you are near the sea ? try some of the people who repair boat engines..inboard not outboard..outboards are usually alloys..inboards are bigger and usually have a lot of cast iron parts..which crack or break, and need welding..so the people who repair them are good at fiddly cast iron work.

Edited March 30, 2017 by mikesc

[kellyblues]

27 minutes ago, mikesc said:

JB Weld = brand name of an epoxy resin two part "mix"( with a light "charge" of metallic dust )? ..if so.. it wont hold up..

I have a 1970 Ford 390FE that has a JB'd crack in the valley. That was done , oh..... About 17 years ago.....Still holding as strong as the day it cured. I had planned on pulling that engine when the JB gave up and weld it but it's still holding strong. And about 30-40 sewing machines that have come to me with a small pieces ( non visible) busted off here and there over the last 20 years , and various other repairs .....JB weld in this country works quite well if the proper cleaning and prep work is carried out. Yes welding is the best permanent repair. But the over all time it will take could purchase 5 more of those heads. They aren't rare by any means. Unless of course someone has that much free time.

 

If you decide to weld it let me know and I will email you a copy of the Singer service manual for that machine.

 

One thing I forgot to mention. If you weld it make sure you have a heat sink source on the bed of the machine. The lacquer coating known as " Japanning"  can ignite . At a minimum it will likely bubble.

 

Making a bracket is the simplest long term functional repair. Just depends on how much time you are willing to spend on it.