George B

Do we really need all the friction?

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I've been a member for a number of years, and to be truthful, I wouldn't be making a living today if not for this site and the information given to me by others here.

That said, I very seldom offer suggestions or comments to those seeking information here. I used to, and enjoyed passing on what I have learned to others. But over the last couple of years I have encountered way too many members that seem to be on the prowl, looking for opportunities to create conflict with others. In many cases lately, creating the conflict themselves with posts designed to suck in the helpful members trying to answer questions.

What makes this even worse in my mind is that some of the individuals causing conflict are "contributing members". All they seem to contribute is grade variety fertilizer.

I still log on to see what others are doing but I do not offer any input, good or bad, I don't need the grief of logging on later to find out a notorious, contributing member leather troll has turned my suggestion into a point of conflict.

As expressed by many smarter people before me, this should be a place where you can come look at all the pretty pictures, ask questions and impart knowledge and advice to others. Unfortunately that is not the case any longer. Now we have members belittling and berating others simply because they didn't have a good day, can't make a living making leather items or just plain old woke up on the wrong side of the bed.

I will continue coming here to see what is new but will continue to not participate in discussions until the herd is weeded. Contributing members that are here to simply create conflict should be eliminated from here, or at best lose the "contributing member" status.

Sorry for my rant but it just plain old makes me angry that some ruin it for everyone.

George

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Truth be told, you're right... I post much less about what I'm doing or my opinions and stick more to questions and post odd leathers and tools for sale in this forum than I did in the past.

 A thread a year or so back said I was "taking the food out of other crafters mouths" for being too cheap.

I'm a manufacturer and do a pretty large volume (employees and all) and I've found on this forum that there is a general: "you're not an artisan if you have people making your designs. You've got to do every step yourself"  vibe that goes on here.  And while I agree that being able to make things from start to finish from scratch and sell them is a beautiful thing, I don't think it cheapens the craft when you have demand that goes beyond what one lone individual can do.   I also don't believe that everyone can afford a bespoke, hand-crafted $150 wallet, there needs to be a lower end quality product out there too. I'm proud to say that I can make a living making a great product that's not out of reach of the average person.   It also feels good to create a few jobs here in the USA...

I tend to post a lot more advice and start my own posts over on the Leathercraft sub of reddit...

 

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Guys, I get it. I'm on a few forums and there is always drama. Please keep in mind that there are guys like me. I'm so new I don't even feel right posting critique but I come here and immerse myself in what others have to show and to share. And I am appreciative for the opportunity to do so. I'd hate to think I was silently struggling with something that you guys have a work around for but didn't share due to the potential drama. There are crumbs on every forum out there, but there are good folks too

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2 hours ago, nstarleather said:

Truth be told, you're right... I post much less about what I'm doing or my opinions and stick more to questions and post odd leathers and tools for sale in this forum than I did in the past.

 A thread a year or so back said I was "taking the food out of other crafters mouths" for being too cheap.

I'm a manufacturer and do a pretty large volume (employees and all) and I've found on this forum that there is a general: "you're not an artisan if you have people making your designs. You've got to do every step yourself"  vibe that goes on here.  And while I agree that being able to make things from start to finish from scratch and sell them is a beautiful thing, I don't think it cheapens the craft when you have demand that goes beyond what one lone individual can do.   I also don't believe that everyone can afford a bespoke, hand-crafted $150 wallet, there needs to be a lower end quality product out there too. I'm proud to say that I can make a living making a great product that's not out of reach of the average person.   It also feels good to create a few jobs here in the USA...

I tend to post a lot more advice and start my own posts over on the Leathercraft sub of reddit...

 

Along those same lines, I get tired of the folks who think you have to do everything the traditional way or learn to tool flowers just like Bob Sheridan or Al Stohlman before you can be considered a true leather craftsman. Funny thing, when I look at their products on their websites, I don't see anything impressive or innovative. Just tired old wallet , belt and holster designs. I really enjoy seeing leather work from other parts of the world, because quite frankly I'm tired of looking at the same old stuff.

 

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Well, I'm happy y'all are here. Nstar, you have passed along some good advice and some great deals since I have been here. Thanks for sharing the wealth.

I wouldn't worry about anyone's opinion about my business. You are employing people and continuing a profitable business. 

Being an artist, and being a business owner are two totally different things. And I know from experience, being an artist is much easier.

And I'm not saying you aren't an artist, you're obviously both. 

I think you're doing a great (also big ) job.

Anywho, there is much less drama and brand snobs here than any other type of forum I have frequented in the past.

Please don't let a few bad apples spoil your barrel.

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14 minutes ago, bikermutt07 said:

Well, I'm happy y'all are here. Nstar, you have passed along some good advice and some great deals since I have been here. Thanks for sharing the wealth.

I wouldn't worry about anyone's opinion about my business. You are employing people and continuing a profitable business. 

Being an artist, and being a business owner are two totally different things. And I know from experience, being an artist is much easier.

And I'm not saying you aren't an artist, you're obviously both. 

I think you're doing a great (also big ) job.

Anywho, there is much less drama and brand snobs here than any other type of forum I have frequented in the past.

Please don't let a few bad apples spoil your barrel.

Thanks I appreciate it!

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I hear where you guys are coming from, but it isn't anything new.  Many years ago, some of our posters ran off a world famous saddle maker because they disagreed with him about saddle fitting.  While I don't particularly care for the saddle maker personally, the level of disrespect accorded him was astounding.  It also portended the future of the internet, IMO.

Bikermutt's right, this place is a heluva lot more civil than most forums I read.

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I've found the "Ignore user" on my profile useful. I've ran into the same opinions the Nstar has mentioned. I just figure we all have our own ways and needs. Actually had a fella in here tell me we would never sit down and have a beer together and be friends because my goal is to put out a quality product and make a living and his goal (which is the only worthy one according to him) is to only make high dollar hand made items.

I agree with Mike. I $200 wallet is fine and dandy. So is a fine quality $25 wallet, and a lot more people can afford them. I know which one feeds my family.

Mark

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There are too many folks in the world that confuse opinion with truth.  The sooner we all learn the difference, the better off we'll all be.  That said, I guess I haven't been around here long enough to experience much drama, but I know one thing...I've learned a lot from the kind folks on this forum and I'm appreciative.  For every drama queen around here, I bet there's a thousand others like me that just want to learn from those that have tread down this road before us.  Don't let the drama get you down.  There are many, many more folks here that need your help than not, and I want to personally thank everyone on this site that chooses to convey their personal knowledge of leathercraft to those less experienced.  When you share knowledge, you leave an indelible mark on the world.  Please don't be discouraged by the pompous behavior of a few, just make judicial use of the ignore button.  :-)

 

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I do agree, there are plenty of good folks here,  though I still do filter/limit my posts.  I had a post on Reddit the other day about "scale" and handling quantity orders.  It got all "positive comments" whereas here I'm sure I'd get a few haters, and some negative "mass production" comments. 

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Really Mike? [not doubting you, just an expression of surprise]

I've seen some 'sharp' comments but I think I've missed seeing any outright nasty postings on here

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Not many haters recently, and the bad thread from a while ago got "cleaned up" by the mods.  I just don't like to defend what I do, when I post. So I post almost as if I'm a one-man operation.   I talk more about machines or a single project as opposed to the large scale stuff I might be doing.  This week, for example I'm squaring up Leather to do 10,000+ 1/8" laces for pouches, but nothing says "mass production" like making that many of anything.

Edited by nstarleather

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On ‎5‎/‎9‎/‎2017 at 11:03 AM, George B said:

I've been a member for a number of years, and to be truthful, I wouldn't be making a living today if not for this site and the information given to me by others here.

That said, I very seldom offer suggestions or comments to those seeking information here. I used to, and enjoyed passing on what I have learned to others. But over the last couple of years I have encountered way too many members that seem to be on the prowl, looking for opportunities to create conflict with others. In many cases lately, creating the conflict themselves with posts designed to suck in the helpful members trying to answer questions.

What makes this even worse in my mind is that some of the individuals causing conflict are "contributing members". All they seem to contribute is grade variety fertilizer.

I still log on to see what others are doing but I do not offer any input, good or bad, I don't need the grief of logging on later to find out a notorious, contributing member leather troll has turned my suggestion into a point of conflict.

As expressed by many smarter people before me, this should be a place where you can come look at all the pretty pictures, ask questions and impart knowledge and advice to others. Unfortunately that is not the case any longer. Now we have members belittling and berating others simply because they didn't have a good day, can't make a living making leather items or just plain old woke up on the wrong side of the bed.

I will continue coming here to see what is new but will continue to not participate in discussions until the herd is weeded. Contributing members that are here to simply create conflict should be eliminated from here, or at best lose the "contributing member" status.

Sorry for my rant but it just plain old makes me angry that some ruin it for everyone.

George

I just paid my money. I have found that a lot of my disagreements are not founded but found. I have no benefits from donating. I just like the site and the education it provides. I guess we all have to choose wisely to post or ignore. I have art sense to share. Some have horse sense. some have common sense, some have none. That being said, the knowledge posted here is priceless. Good, and 'misunderstood', I thank you all!

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Good for you, Mjolnir. I just paid my money recently also. I have gotten so much more than I could ever contribute, though I try. For a while I felt funny contributing info and insights, when I am still such a newb, but then, as I've found out in many things, the "old hands" don't have the recent experience of trying to figure something basic out, and my input is on a level the newb needs to hear. It's like an adult forgetting exactly how confusing something basic can be if you don't have the fundamentals down. Decades ago, when I was a newly certificated flight instructor, I had numerous students tell me they'd never heard it put quite "that way". Well, I'd much more recently figured it for myself, too. So I could relate!

And, yes, most definitely yes, this is the most civil forum I participate in. THANK YOU! THAT is why I come here first, and most.

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I thought this thread was going to be about burnishing. I would love to receive more critiquing but can understand why it might not be worth it to the more experienced people to speak up. 

Also wish it was easier to talk about tradition and change in leather craft. Like the difference in things that havn't changed over time because they are good engineering/technique/supply and what hasn't changed because new tech hasn't been applied to it yet. But man do I see where that discussion could be more of a headache than help anyone.

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