Skiving Machine Independent Feed Mod

[arz]

As promised here are some photos of the Ellegi/Atom GL12 skiving machine I bought and the start of the modifications I want to make. The machine was owned by an older couple closing their shoe making shop and was in great condition.

The model I bought has two motors: 1 for the vacuum and 1 clutch motor that runs the blade and feed wheel. The feeding speed was much too fast for my use. As I only paid about 200 euro for it I decided I would try to make the feed wheel independent of the blade. I also wanted to be able to finely control the feed speed, for example being able to very slowly feed the leather in and then gradually increase the speed as I skive.

I researched every way possible to add a third motor for the feed wheel.  There are three ways you can do this (that I can think of): 1. a direct drive servo directly behind the feed wheel as found in some new machines; 2. a motor underneath the feed pulley on the right of the machine; and 3, a motor on the top of the table behind the feed pulley, again on the right of the machine.

Option 1 is far beyond most people's abilities, at lest mine! I tried very hard to make option 2 work but could not. My table has upper cross supports, a lower belt guard and a middle sheet metal "wall" between the operator and clutch motor. The only way I might have made this work was to replace the clutch motor with a small servo. I am too cheap to do this! The clutch motor works great so I want to use that for the blade as long as I can.

That left me with option number 3 which is what I went with. I found a new Jake JK-513A servo motor for about $105 from a dealer 5 minutes from where I live. This was cheaper and easier than buying a DC or servo motor, the power supplies, controller etc. It is 550W which is much more power than I need, but the price was right. I recommend a motor where the motor, foot controller and power supply are separate. Without that I could not have done this. My table has so many under supports that I need this flexibility.

I removed the belt from the main shaft that goes to the feed pulley. I then mount this motor directly behind it on the table top. It took a little bit of playing with the placement of the motor, the foot controller and power supply and it works! Not elegant, but it is doing what I want  The feed is now controlled by the foot pedal and servo speed controller and the blade runs continuously. I have used a machine that had a separate clutch for the feed wheel. This offers even better control than that in my very limited experience!

If you have space under your table that would be a better option. Here is someone on Instagram who has done this: 

 

 

Here are some photos. I will post some more when I get a chance. I need to cut a slot in the machine belt cover, mount the belt cover on the motor and buy a few parts for the machine. 

Hope this helps! -Adam

[arz]

One quick question: my blade is run by my clutch motor. Can I leave the clutch engaged (by putting a spring on the clutch arm)? Will this hurt the motor/clutch when turning it on and off?

Thanks, -Adam

[RockyAussie]

1 hour ago, arz said:

One quick question: my blade is run by my clutch motor. Can I leave the clutch engaged (by putting a spring on the clutch arm)? Will this hurt the motor/clutch when turning it on and off?

Thanks, -Adam

I dont think so Adam. My wife for years pushes the peddle forward on the Fortuna  so that the clutch is lightly engaged and we have not had any problems. I on the other hand generally prefer to have the off so it tends to go back and forth either way a lot. The picture below shows the foot pedal which is quite heavy and can be pushed forward to engage the clutch partly or fully if you want. The FAV machine I have has a screw at the back to set the clutch to where ever you want the speed to run at and again no problems.

[arz]

16 minutes ago, RockyAussie said:

I dont think so Adam. My wife for years pushes the peddle forward on the Fortuna  so that the clutch is lightly engaged and we have not had any problems. I on the other hand generally prefer to have the off so it tends to go back and forth either way a lot. The picture below shows the foot pedal which is quite heavy and can be pushed forward to engage the clutch partly or fully if you want. The FAV machine I have has a screw at the back to set the clutch to where ever you want the speed to run at and again no problems.

 

Great! I am not familiar with clutch motors that is why I ask. I would just like to keep in engaged all the time, so when I turn the machine on the blade and vacuum start up immediately. Thanks, -Adam

[arz]

Yesterday I was able to get the knife sharp and it is skiving great! I was able to skive down to about 0.4mm :). Now just to get a teflon or roller presser foot and some other small parts. The vacuum works pretty good but I need a new filter. I do want to get a new cover for the knife. It makes me nervous having that blade spinning all the time and only half covered!

The machine cleaned up nice and I was able to get the covers working pretty good.

Is it worth it to get a scrap ejector, or is it a waste of money?  Like this one:

https://www.campbell-randall.com/shop/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=15314

Thanks, -Adam

[RockyAussie]

I've only ever used them with the ejector in place so how they go without one I could not say. If you have waste coming up to the top often then I would have to say it would help.

Regards Brian

[arz]

6 hours ago, RockyAussie said:

I've only ever used them with the ejector in place so how they go without one I could not say. If you have waste coming up to the top often then I would have to say it would help.

Regards Brian

Thanks! This machine does not have one. I had a few scraps wanting to come up, however most of it was taken away with the vacuum. It is a cheap part, I'll order one. -Adam

[Cloudlessdave]

Many thanks for all the input into this thread. I was looking at modifying my bellskiver and found exactly what I needed here. Just incase it helps anybody out in the future here's a photo of mine. 

 

[arz]

3 minutes ago, Cloudlessdave said:

Many thanks for all the input into this thread. I was looking at modifying my bellskiver and found exactly what I needed here. Just incase it helps anybody out in the future here's a photo of mine. 

 

 

Glad it was of help. Great photo of your setup! -Adam

[keithski122]

Nice work.Does it help with the skiving process? Was it worth modifying as I have one similar?

[arz]

2 hours ago, keithski122 said:

Nice work.Does it help with the skiving process? Was it worth modifying as I have one similar?

Yes. For me it is much better having the feed speed slower. You can control it much better. Also, the knife can stay at a high speed so it cuts better. In a normal setup if you slow the feed speed you also slow the knife. 

However, the single most important thing I learned about using a skiving machine is this: get the blade very very sharp. Makes a world of a difference! Once you learn to sharpen it correctly you will be amazed at the difference

A skiving machine is very nice to have. Mine is in a building about 10 minutes from our apartment (where we have our small shop). If it was in my shop I would use it daily!

-Adam

[artigiano]

Interesting set up. I was wondering if for the wiring of the two motors, you have them on independent plugs or have both operating off a single plug/controller.

[alexitbe]

On 12/3/2018 at 10:29 PM, arz said:

 

However, the single most important thing I learned about using a skiving machine is this: get the blade very very sharp. Makes a world of a difference! Once you learn to sharpen it correctly you will be amazed at the difference

-Adam

Hi Adam,

can you describe how you sharpen and what you should look out for? Its something I will have to do soon...

Thanks

alex

[shripud]

On 12/3/2018 at 6:06 PM, Cloudlessdave said:

Many thanks for all the input into this thread. I was looking at modifying my bellskiver and found exactly what I needed here. Just incase it helps anybody out in the future here's a photo of mine. 

 

So what I gather from here is that the feed pulley is connected to the servo and the knife pulley is connected to the clutch motor ?

If so how do you make the clutch motor run continuosly  ?

Edited April 22, 2020 by shripud

[keithski122]

They both look like servo motors to me, I guess you just lock the controller box a what speed you need.

I'm still looking at doing this mod to my skiver but I'd like to get both motors under the table.

[shripud]

4 hours ago, keithski122 said:

They both look like servo motors to me, I guess you just lock the controller box a what speed you need.

I'm still looking at doing this mod to my skiver but I'd like to get both motors under the table.

Cool, all the best for your mod !

[arz]

On 8/12/2019 at 9:55 PM, artigiano said:

Interesting set up. I was wondering if for the wiring of the two motors, you have them on independent plugs or have both operating off a single plug/controller.

I have them on independent plugs.

[arz]

On 8/13/2019 at 12:08 AM, alexitbe said:

Hi Adam,

can you describe how you sharpen and what you should look out for? Its something I will have to do soon...

Thanks

alex

I will try my best to describe it.  I think there are some YouTube videos about sharpening. I do not have access to my skiver at the moment (it is at another location). If I had my machine in front of me, I would do a video to show you or take photos. Unfortunate, because of the coronavirus I can't do that at this time.

To the best of my memory here is how I do it. If anyone else is an expert at this, please post you corrections (I will not get offended!).

Please be careful and watch your fingers and eyes!

How to sharpen knife/blade:
1. Clean your sharpening stone. It will sharpen much easier with a clean stone :). You may need to clean it several times as you sharpen the knife. If there are 0 sparks them you need to clean it.
2. While machine is running (or while you rotate the blade) run a black permeant marker over the edge of the knife (about 10-12mm of the edge). This will show you if/when your knife (blade) is sharp.
3. Position knife at a certain distance from the top guard. OR some other fixed location. For example: I place the blade 10mm to the left of my top knife guard. I use a ruler to check this. I like this position to be where I normally leave my knife. That is, very close (2mm?) from the edge of my presser foot.  EVERY time you sharpen the knife, put the knife in this position. Why? Because this sets the angle of the knife and gives you constancy. You want the knife in a fixed position, and then,
4. Slowly (very carefully!), move the sharpening stone towards the knife. As you sharpen continue to move the stone toward the knife,
5. Stop once the marker is gone. You should have a nice 10mm polished edge that is very sharp. 

As the knife gets dull, you will need to move it back to it's fixed sharpening position and sharpen it a bit, so just a little to the left.

I hope all this makes sense!

[jimi]

Hi, Now that many clones are made there seems to be no information with them when you buy them, this seems to have lost importance for people these days, no diagrams, illustrations, measurements etc..... I would get hold of a user manual for a older machine which the basics will apply, like feet position, sharpening, motor speed etc.... If anyone wants a copy of the Fortuna skiver manual PM me. Also now the skivers are fitted with servos which can be flipped to run in both directions at a push of a button. According to the manual,....REMEMBER: