DelNeroDesigns Report post Posted July 26, 2017 Looking for a list of older sewing machines that can handle #277 and #346 thread and also for a used machine at a reasonable price. Am sewing thick leather straps have been using my Hand crank Boss but need to move onto a motorized machine. Thank you! Bryn Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wizcrafts Report post Posted July 27, 2017 The Juki TSC-441 came out around 1988, or so. It could sew up to 3/4 inch of whatever, using #346 thread. It is still in production and lists in the USA for about $5500, plus or minus This machine gave birth to an entire genre of similar, but improved machines known as "441 clones." Many of the modern day 441 clones can sew 3/4 inch and more, with #346 thread, top and bottom. They are sold by dealers who have ad banners on top of our pages. The top brands are Cobra, Cowboy and Techsew. The clones cost 1/2 of a real Juki and do the same work. Both Cowboy and Techsew now offer a 441 type machine that is limited to sewing 1/2 inch, but still handles #346 thread. They cost about $500 less than their bigger, thicker sewing brothers. There was a major player in the modern day heavy leather sewing business that has sadly gone out of production. It is the Adler 205-374. This machine sews 3/4 inch with up to #415 thread. Weaver Leather used to sell them new for about $6,000 or more. If you can find someone selling a used one for $3,000, grab it! Older heavy duty needle and awl harness stitchers were built from the late 1800s through the mid 1900s. I have owned Union Lockstitch machines that sewed 3/4 inch with #415 thread. The last one was from around 1910 and it sewed like it was brand new. They are favorites of the Amish and can be found in working condition for $2,000 and up. Their big brother is the Campbell Lockstitch Machine. Look it up on YouTube. There is no finer stitcher, if you can find one you can afford. Campbell Randall Company sells totally rebuilt Campbell Lockstitch machines that are like new, but you'll need a business loan. Other older harness stitchers of note are the Number 9 Machine, the Luberto Classic and the Ferdinand Bull, all of which are single needle, jump foot machines that can sew up to 3/4 inch with #415 thread. All are out of production and hard to find. These machines originally sold in the 6K range. Used ones tend to go for between $2500 and $3500. There were nice harness stitchers made by Landis (models 3 and 16) and Champion, as well as BUSM and Pearson. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Uwe Report post Posted July 27, 2017 I'm not aware of a list, but it would be nice to have one. Realistically, though, it's a little like asking the server to recite dozens of craft beers when all you really want is a Bud Light. That Bud Light in this context is one of well over a dozen versions of a Juki TSC-441 class machine. There are lots of other vintage brands and models out there, but few folks are willing to deal with them and even fewer are willing to write a dissertation on the topic. You could spend months coming up with a comprehensive list of vintage machines categorized by thread handling ability. I hope somebody does one day. "Heavy Stitcher" is what you are looking for. That generally also means that the machine head weighs 100 lbs or more. If by "reasonable price" you mean what a machine is actually worth, you should be golden. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chayse Report post Posted July 27, 2017 Don't know how heavy you want to go..as much as I hate to post it but have seen them listed for a bit. Way out of my league for sure!! https://tampa.craigslist.org/hil/tls/d/american-straight-needle/6229306540.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Uwe Report post Posted July 27, 2017 Bumblebee and Kermit are definitely in the over-100 lbs category. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wizcrafts Report post Posted July 27, 2017 Good find, Chayse! These machines are usually shoe sole stitchers. But, the American Straight Stitch Machines can be used for holsters, harness and other thick leather jobs. They were designed before the advent of bonded nylon thread, so are best used with linen thread run through liquid wax. Some folks have been able to use bonded polyester thread in their American SS machines. Further, they have limited throat depth behind the needle. A Campbell-Randall or Union Lockstitch is more useful for saddlery. 1 minute ago, Uwe said: Bumblebee and Kermit are definitely in the over-100 lbs category. The seller lists them at over 500 pounds each. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chayse Report post Posted July 27, 2017 @Uwe..no doubt and would take an engine hoist to move them!!! But, I have no idea what @DelNeroDesigns was looking for..thought I would throw this up, as I check CL daily...I am not joking! You never know what might pop up! I agree, those are some big machines but someone, somewhere is probably looking for something to do what they do...again, I only know because I read this forum! But for the money, I think they would serve someone well...one machine (if it truly works like the seller says) and a potential parts machine...that is still usable. To me, if I had a use for them, that is cheap! More often than not people get scared away because of their size but to someone that actually has a use for them...I think that is a bargain! Hopefully someone will save them, instead of ending up in the scrap pile!! Thanks @Wizcrafts and @Uwe, I don't think you both realize how much your knowledge truly impacts this forum! If it weren't for the both of you, so many of us 'new to leather' people, like myself, would be lost when it comes to machines such as this...icons of a time when we actually made things by hand....instead of running to WallyWorld to buy some cheap import. I digress... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DelNeroDesigns Report post Posted July 27, 2017 1 hour ago, Chayse said: Don't know how heavy you want to go..as much as I hate to post it but have seen them listed for a bit. Way out of my league for sure!! https://tampa.craigslist.org/hil/tls/d/american-straight-needle/6229306540.html Over kill... I think looking for the table top version! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gregg From Keystone Sewing Report post Posted July 27, 2017 Singer 7-31, 7-33, 132K6, 45K, 144W, 144A, Consew 733R series, 744R, SK-2R, Adler 220, Seiko JW class, SLH-2B. There are many many more, but these come to mind for me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Constabulary Report post Posted July 27, 2017 Adler 4, Adler 5, Adler 104, Adler 105, CLAES 214.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chayse Report post Posted July 28, 2017 Here ya go... Singer 7-33 https://ocala.craigslist.org/art/d/singer-centennial-model/6221652266.html And another... Singer 7-9 (Too rich for my blood)!! https://fortmyers.craigslist.org/chl/atq/d/heavy-industrial-singer/6206344677.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DelNeroDesigns Report post Posted August 3, 2017 Any with reverse??? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wizcrafts Report post Posted August 3, 2017 My Singer 42-5 can handle #277 thread, but it fills the bobbins rather quickly. The bobbins are half the size of the 441 clone bobbins. I don't know of any old sewing machine with reverse that handles #277 thread properly. In fact, the only machine in my leather shop that has reverse at all is a Cowboy CB4500. It has a very large bobbin and handles up to #415 thread and #27 needles. Even my Union Lockstitch machines lacked reverse. The barbed needles would tend to rat out the previous stitches anyway. Neither did the Singer 132k6 I once had. Come to think of it, the Juki TSC-441 is now considered an old machine, since they first came out in the late 1980s. It has reverse, as does the Adler 205-370, which came out in about 1988 or 89. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Uwe Report post Posted August 3, 2017 Some Singer Class 7 models can be retro-fitted with reverse. The lever is on the back and usually operated via foot pedal or pneumatic cylinder. With the right motor control you can even program automatic back-tack and other tricks. Adjustment screws at the top and bottom allow to balance forward and reverse stitch length. Here's a picture of my 7-31 that has the retrofit reverse lever: Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimi Report post Posted August 3, 2017 7 hours ago, Wizcrafts said: I don't know of any old sewing machine with reverse that handles #277 thread properly. I am sure the old singer 45k would handle that thread and some models have reverse. (45k89,45k92,45k93) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yetibelle Report post Posted August 3, 2017 4 hours ago, Uwe said: Some Singer Class 7 models can be retro-fitted with reverse. The lever is on the back and usually operated via foot pedal or pneumatic cylinder. With the right motor control you can even program automatic back-tack and other tricks. Adjustment screws at the top and bottom allow to balance forward and reverse stitch length. Here's a picture of my 7-31 that has the retrofit reverse lever: I'm looking at that motor setup you have there is that just a portable testing motor you rigged-up? How can you tell/identify the Singer Class 7 models that can be modified for reverse? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Uwe Report post Posted August 3, 2017 1 hour ago, Yetibelle said: I'm looking at that motor setup you have there is that just a portable testing motor you rigged-up? How can you tell/identify the Singer Class 7 models that can be modified for reverse? Yes, the motor is just a temporary test setup to check stitch speeds and take measurements. I'm building a proper table for the machine to get it ready for demo (and sale.) I'm not sure exactly what parts are involved to add reverse to a Singer Class 7, so I don't know which Singer 7 subclasses are compatible with the retrofit. I know Singer Class 7-31, 7-33, and 7-34 can have reverse, but there may be more. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TinBadgeLeather Report post Posted August 17, 2017 On 7/26/2017 at 9:44 PM, Chayse said: Don't know how heavy you want to go..as much as I hate to post it but have seen them listed for a bit. Way out of my league for sure!! https://tampa.craigslist.org/hil/tls/d/american-straight-needle/6229306540.html I'd love to be closer to those! I just bought one for $475 and have been going through it the last couple weeks. It's the red model. I call her "Louise" for her being a redhead. Lol. New belts, needles, awls, lubed up and also built an 8 x 10" table out of 1/4" 6061 aluminum. It has #346 thread too and bottom and doesn't hesitate to drive through two 8/9 layers of veg tan. And then....last night the thread loop shaft decides to come loose. Sooo.... I'll figure that out. Awww the joys of older machines! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
