Bobbin Loading Issues

[Chelsie44]

Hello!

I am trying to figure out my Juki  machine and my bottom stitch just isn't panning out. I'm 99 percent sure it's operator error and was hoping I could get some tips!

I think it has something to do with my bobbin and how I am loading it 

 

Thank you! 

Edited August 2, 2017 by Chelsie44
Picture

[Uwe]

The picture doesn't really tell me much detail about how you're loading the bobbin. For remote debugging, you're going to have to give us little more to work with.

What model Juki your machine is and what do you mean by "isn't panning out". Do you have a user manual for the machine? What does the manual say about loading the bobbin? If you don't have a manual, have you looked for one online?

 

[Wizcrafts]

We'll need photos of the stitching on top and bottom of a representative piece of leather. Remove the bobbin temporarily and reinsert it so the thread feeds counterclockwise, against the slot in the case.This is the most reliable direction of feed in most instances. Make sure that the windings aren't overflowing the edges of the bobbin. 

Make sure you line up the tab on the case with the indent on the housing and make sure the bobbin case snaps in all the way.

[Chelsie44]

It is a DNU 241H. I have a manual but it is very basic, I have also watched numerous YouTube videos but what I am unsure of is what I need to with the thread tail that comes out of the casing after it has been loaded. I have pictures of the bottom side but will need to take some of the top. 

[Gregg From Keystone Sewing]

Make sure the feed dog carrier is set to the correct height.

I've checked the owners book and it does not cover this.  When you cycle the machine by hand, the bottom valley of the feed dog should be at the same level of the needle plate.  Hope that helps.

 

[Uwe]

The picture may indicate something else in the thread path going on. Your top thread path may not be right.

 

Your top thread may snag somewhere as it wraps around the hook and bobbin. Maybe the bobbin case opener doesn't work right. 

As for the tail of the bobbin thread after installing, you pull it up through the feed dog hole. Hold the top thread and make one manual turn.

Make sure the bobbin thread is under the tension spring of the bobbin case and that you have very light tension as you pull the thread (30-50g) 

This Juki DNU-241H manual (http://www.raichert.com/adobe/dnubook.pdf) has a little more than the basics.

Edited August 2, 2017 by Uwe
added pics

[Wizcrafts]

From the photos of the underside it seems that either there is too little top tension, or too much bobbin tension, or the needle is too small for the thickness of the thread.

First, make sure you are following the full thread path and that the bobbin tension is not too high. If the knots can't be pulled up inside the leather, try a larger needle.

There is a needle and thread chart on the Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines website. Find the size of thread you are trying to use and it will show the best needle size or sizes to use.

For instance, if the thread is #138 (the maximum your machine is rated for), and the needle in it is a #22, move up one number to a #23 needle (leather point). The largest needle your machine may take is a #24. It gets harder to punch through as the needles get bigger. Thicker thread forms much bigger knots than thinner thread and is harder to pull up.

If your thread is larger than #138, stop ruining your machine and buy some #138 thread, along with #22 and #23 leather point needles.

[Chelsie44]

I am using 138 thread with a #23 needle.

I have checked my threading for the top side  and bobbin loading against the picture Uwe posted. My thread guide is a little different though. 

It looks like it is skipping a stitch on the top as well. 

[Wizcrafts]

Tighten down the pressure spring and run that sewing test again. If the pressure spring isn't tight enough to hold the feet firmly on the leather, the leather can lift with the needle and you'll have skipped stitches.

[Uwe]

I'm still putting my money on the top thread snagging somewhere below the throat plate. You don't get big loops of top thread underneath like that unless more top thread is pulled from the spool at the wrong time, leaving the take-up lever without a chance to pull the knot tight.

I may sound like a broken record to some: Take the belt off the hand wheel and do a few very slow, hand-turned stitches and really look, feel, and listen for anything that is not how it should be. Knowing how things should be is often the hard part. "Smooth and without hang-ups" is a good starting point.

Edited August 3, 2017 by Uwe

[Chelsie44]

I have only been using the hand wheel when stitching so far. I have taken all thread off and re did it and tightened the tension spring. My loops are gone (yay!) but the knots are getting pulled through the leather. It sounds like a crunch when the needle is being lifted back out of the leather for each stitch. Would this come from the tension being too tight? 

I really appreciate yalls help! I have been messing with this thing for weeks trying to figure it out.

[NCArcher]

That needle seems to be making very large holes. Is it a leather needle? Back the top tension off a bit. It's now too high

Edited August 3, 2017 by NCArcher

[RockyAussie]

As NCArcher says your top tension is now to high. Back it off anticlockwise around 2 full turns and try again but as Wiz said also I think you may need to tighten down your foot pressure a few turns. That is the knob right up on top that has a locking ring which will need to be loosened in order to turn first. As he said the leather if it lifts with the needle can give this effect and make it miss stitch as well. That may be why so much looping shows in your first picture. I am not seeing any impression marking at all and on that sort of leather and with this size needle I would expect to see at least a little. I do think a 22 LR leather point needle would be more suitable and better at getting a more consistent knotting into the middle. Your getting close nowBrian

[Chelsie44]

Thank you!! So it's this part that needs to be let down? 

[RockyAussie]

I'll have to ask you what model Juki. The foot pressure is normally increased or decreased by the knob in this picture I've borrowed from above that Uwe has provided above. Brian

[Chelsie44]

My knob looks a little different than that, it is a dnu 241h. 

 

[Uwe]

On 8/7/2017 at 7:46 PM, Chelsie44 said:

Thank you!! So it's this part that needs to be let down? 

Don't change things there. It may never be the same again. 

You may not yet be aware of Rule #1 of sewing machine maintenance: Never loosen a screw unless you know what it does. 

I'm also a little concerned that your Juki DNU-241H looks quite different in the head area from the one that Leif Labs describes in this blog post: 

 

Can you please post detailed pictures of your machine's name plate and other identifying marks? Also a few pictures that show the whole machine. Try not to have pictures backlit (strong light in the background)  - it' makes it very hard to tell what's going on. Turn the machine around or shine a bright light at the front (or touch and hold the area on thor phone screen you want to be in focus and well exposed.). I know it's a pain to fuss with lighting, but it makes all the difference in the word. 

Edited August 9, 2017 by Uwe

[Chelsie44]

I have contacted the manufacturer and apparently I am missing the hopping foot pressure. 

Edited August 10, 2017 by Chelsie44
Pics

[RockyAussie]

I thought that's what it looked like but I am surprised that you could even get it to stitch any thing at all. Just be careful that the previous owner has not done something bodgy to make the  spring stay in somehow. It looks like new yet???

[dikman]

Why does the thread appear to be wrapped around the thread tension nut?

[brmax]

It looks as though the take up levers black gaurd is bent in and right.  Making a person consider an alternate thread routing as the norm.  Good pickup there!

Its a good lookin machine, no wear marks.

good day 

Floyd

[jimi]

As dikman said.... the thread is snagged around your tension unit.

[Uwe]

It also looks like the incoming thread is BEHIND the two tension discs instead of BETWEEN the two tension disks. Unless the thread is between the tension disk you'll have no top thread tension at all which all but guarantees loops on the bottom.

Edited August 10, 2017 by Uwe

[brmax]

Ok guys im about to give up on using the phone for veiwing, or thats the excuse im trying to use 

Your spot on Uwe from my re-viewing ( zoomed ) in!

Hey it happens in the best of times to many of us, Fix and move on.

Floyd

ps  possibly start the thread through the opposite side of the multi hole guide

Edited August 10, 2017 by brmax

[dikman]

Uwe, your photo enlargement showing the thread path makes me wonder how it worked at all.