Pfaff 145 h4 and New Tech servo motor

[seamsperfect]

Hello, this is my first post....although I've benefited from reading this form for a while now.

I posted these questions on an older Pfaff 145 post.......then after I read the "new members please read" thread I realized I made a booboo.

1).   I'm trying to identify the name and purpose of a metal bar across the top of the Pfaff 145 (see photo) some machines I see for sale have it...some don't.

the machine I'm considering purchasing doesn't have it...just want to know what part is missing. I looked at the PDF user's manual can't find anything that makes sense.

2).   also this machine has a New Tech SC 600FL servo motor 600watts.....I've read on this forum some servos have jumpy take off.....lose power at low speeds.....etc ....need pulleys to control speed.....it's all very new to me ....just wondering if anyone has any experience with this brand /type of motor. What's your opinion of it...

I will be sewing light/medium weight leather 3-6oz several layers plus linings and interfacings in making purses, tote bags,wallets,  leather duffel bags. I'm an avid home sewer....but this will be my first industrial machine...and I'm new to leather....wonder if the motor will have enough power at slow speeds.

3) I asked the seller about the mileage on the machine, I know the machine is very old.....he said the lady he purchased it from bought it new for her use at home......she sewed uniforms for the military. He then bought it and never really used it....so I will be the third owner....I can't verify his story, but if it's true maybe the machine isn't too worn out??

I've seen these machines range from $300 -$1000 for sale......he was asking $800 and I offered him $550.  If that fair and reasonable considering the age of machine....what should I look for to see if the machine is too worn out?

any thoughts advice will be much appreciated.

thank you

 

 

[Uwe]

Welcome to LW!

The bar across the top is a spring blade that provides pressure for the presser foot on certain Pfaff 145 subclasses. Other subclasses have a vertical spiral compression spring that wraps around the presser bar. 

The motor is likely a generic Chinese servo motor that has a little more oomph with 600Watt that the more common 400 Watt versions. For a beginner, any servo motor will be better starting point than a clutch motor, in my opinion. You can't really go wrong and they're cheap to replace if need be.

As for overall wear, the size of the area where paint is worn off down to bare metal is one indicator of how much use the machine has seen. If no area of paint is worn down to the metal the machine has seen very little use. Even a well-used machines with large areas of worn paint can be in very good shape and last another lifetime in the right hands.

70's was a GREAT decade for sewing machines. That vintage Pfaff 145 machines are very nice designs and very capable machines. Wear parts (presser feet, throat plates, tension units, etc.) are generally available (search EBay for "Pfaff 145" to see what's out there). Prices are higher than generic Singer parts, but not nearly as bad as some make it sound. If you think paying more than $20 for any one part is outrageous, then Pfaff is not the right brand for you. 

For $800 the machine should be in nice working condition. If you get it for $550 and it works well, you got yourself a good deal.

[dikman]

As Uwe said, that servo is probably pretty generic judging by the control box. If it's working and runs for a few minutes then it should be ok. Ideally you would want to get the "handbook/manual" with it so that you know how to adjust the settings if needed. As for power etc. it should be more than adequate for your needs. A quick search doesn't bring up that name, which isn't surprising as if it's an older one that brand name probably doesn't exist anymore.

[seamsperfect]

Uwe and dikman Sincere  thanks for your feedback. The machine looked so "pretty"  no real worn out marks on the paint (see photo)....so I took the plunge and bought it. My new learning adventure begins!

The guy selling it didn't even know how to thread it correctly so it couldn't give a consistent  stitch.  I knew we just had to play with the tensions but he didn't want to be bothered..... I figured I'll bring it home and learn my way around it.  I oiled a bit, played with the tensions and got it to stitch nicely. Got it for $500.

I made a "to do" list  ( at 2am) of things I need to learn/repair/purchase  for this machine.....if anyone wants to give their opinions/ advice/ warnings I would be very grateful.

1) find the manual for the New Tech servo motor as suggested by Dikman....or at least a motor similar to it....So far I learned that "R" on the box means reverse....so "M" means forward???? Can't seem to find the manual online.

2) purchase the correct type of oil and grease to do a deeper cleaning ...the manual is hard to see exactly what to oil so I downloaded the Pfaff 1245 manual it's clearer to see. So far I have kerosene, Tri Flow, and Lily White oil....any better suggestions?

3)get over my fear of taking the bobbin case apart to clean...need to purchase a microscopic screwdriver to remove the gib. I read something about a  bad thread jam costing hundreds of dollars to replace bobbin case..scary! I also read about resetting the safety catch that protects the bobbin case in case of a jam. Still trying to identify where that safety thingy is in case I need to reset it.

4)purchase a caliper to measure millimeters, the 1245 manual goes into detail how to set all the proper distances needle height, racer hook, tension disc etc back to factory standards....would I be getting in over my head if I tried to do this at home? What kind of gadget measures that?

5) learn how to lower and grease the knee lift (see photo below) or maybe have to replace. It's rusty, very stiff and sits too high

6) rusty bobbin winder..can it be cleaned? ...It's rusty but still works, but can it affect the way the thread is wound on bobbin?

7) maybe change the motor belt.. it seems a little frayed and pinched in some areas (see photo below)

8) decipher the needle bar height needle system connection. the seller told me the repair shop adjusted it to take 135....but it normally takes 190. I'm assuming he's talking about the length of the needles, it came with both type of needles but I'm trying to understand what's what...

9) it also came with some binder attachments that I need to figure out are they for leather or fabric,  double fold, single fold, I use bias binding in regular home sewing, but does leather have a bias??  I searched this attachment set online and they seam to have a plate that screws into the bed of machine...gotta track that down if I need it...I do want to do binding. 

Thanks for letting me organize my thoughts on this forum. And for all the expert input. Hopefully I'll be able to contribute to someone else's learning experience one day.

This is an invaluable resource for the stitching community !

not letting me attach photos....I'll try again

[seamsperfect]

https://powerpoint.officeapps.live.com/p/pdfhandler.ashx?PV=0&Pid=Fi%3DSD391D15326EDFF57C!2153%26C%3D5_810_BAY-SKY-WAC-WSHI%26ak%3Dt%3D0%26s%3D0%26v%3D%21AAgjWkjWhvu2XqY%26aid%3D16c9332e%2D6764%2D4240%2D88ba%2D71741a027c6f%26m%3Den%2Dus%26z%3D26&waccluster=US2K

 

made a PDF of images mentioned in items above

[Uwe]

Congratulations, you got yourself a very nice machine at a great price!

A few basic rules: don't take things apart unless you have to and you understand how they go back together. Don't turn a screw unless you know what it does.

Try to keep LW topics simple and separate and don't be afraid to start a new topic for a specific task or question. Keep using  meaningful topic titles that include the machine model. Some of the topics in your list have been discussed at length before. Try a Google search specific to LW for a little homework (e.g. "site:leatherworker.net remove bobbin case" or "site:leatherworker.net Pfaff 145")

If the machine sews nicely as it is, don't change anything unless you have to - just oil it well and use it for while to get a feel for things. It's too easy to inadvertently change something important and cause endless frustration and grief.

When I get a new vintage machine, I remove the motor belt and oil the machine and turn it over by hand very time I walk past it for few days, while I collect information about the machine.

It's temping to remove a bunch of things for cleaning, but the machine may simply not be the same after you put it back together. Be patient, sew a little, read manuals, study the parts diagrams and watch YouTube videos until you're comfortable with a certain task before you pick up a screw driver. There's no real rush since the machines sews as it is.

Knee lift and bobbin winder are non-essential and fair game. You can remove rusty parts and soak them in Evapo-Rust for a few hours. Rinse under water and scrub off residue with a plastic brush, dry and wipe with clean, oily rag.

The Pfaff 145 Manual should be your main operating guide. The Pfaff 1245 is a few generations newer and some adjustments, measurements, or details may be significantly different.

The "190" is the needle system, not the length. Don't use a needle unless you personally removed the needle from a new package that was marked with the correct needle system. Discard ALL loose needles now. 

If the machine is adjusted for System 134 or the seemingly-the-same-but-not-really-and-definitely-not-interchangeable System 134-35 needles the needle bar has been lowered to accommodate the shorter needle system. The bottom of the needle bar may touch the presser feet if they are raised - don't run the machine with raised feet to wind a bobbin unless you're certain the needle bar does not bind/touch the raised feet. It's possible to adjust needle bar height for a different needle system without affecting hook timing, but that's worth a separate topic.

Get a $3 eye glass repair kit at the local drug store and that screw driver for the tiny screws in the hook gib. Don't loose the screws. The bobbin case will come out and insert easily in exactly the right position, and be impossible to remove or insert in all other positions.

The PDF works okay, but for archival purposes, directly attached pictures are the gold standard. Find a way to downsize pictures or donate a few bucks to LW and they'll make a you a contributing member with larger upload limits.

Sorry about the long reply. I'm violating my own rules about keeping things concise and on topic. A year from now, nobody will want to wade through pages of meandering replies to find the nugget of info they need.

[dikman]

Well done, sounds like a good buy. The motor "manual" - don't bother searching as I doubt you'll find one, most of these "manuals" seem to be just a few pages of "Chinglish" that usually takes a bit of deciphering. If it's working it will pay to leave the settings alone for now. I use a head magnifier whenever I'm working on a machine (old eyes and it's much better than my glasses!). IF you decide to dismantle anything with small screws be very careful about NOT losing the screws.

The fact that you've got it sewing straight off is very good, as Uwe said use it and become familiar with it before trying to make any changes.

Edited September 22, 2017 by dikman

[seamsperfect]

Again a big thank you for those few basic rules.  Please more info on the needle system. I'm still confused about the needles

Some came with the machine some labeled :

190LR

16x 257 CF12-80

DCx27 SY6120

and regular Schmetz 130/705 H LL (what I would use on my home sewing machine)

I will discard all of the above if need be, but I'm not clear on what to purchase.

Uwe mentioned that if the needle bar has been adjusted ...the bottom of the needle bar may touch the raised presser foot.

It comes very close with only a hairs breath clearance, but it doesn't actually touch with the full rotation of the needle (hope that makes sense)

So just to be clear I should be purchasing 134 or 135  needles in whatever size I need for thickness of material?

the needle installed is stamped GB 140. That doesn't say which system it is.. 

I have the needle chart....but I still need a little guidance.

Thank you for your patience with this newbie!

 

[Kohlrausch]

Hi,

 

needlesyem 190 is what the machine has been designed for. 16x257, also called 287 WH and 1738 ist too small in diameter and too short. This system is used by older householdsewing machines, light commercial sewing machines and some sergers. DCx27 also is a serger system.

 

HTH

 

Greets

Ralf C.

[seamsperfect]

20 hours ago, Kohlrausch said:

Hi,

 

needlesyem 190 is what the machine has been designed for. 16x257, also called 287 WH and 1738 ist too small in diameter and too short. This system is used by older householdsewing machines, light commercial sewing machines and some sergers. DCx27 also is a serger system.

 

HTH

 

Greets

Ralf C.

Thank you Ralph C. for your response. After comparing my needles according to what you mentioned above, I have elimated all the extra needles that came with the machine none are similar to the one installed in the machine.

Comparing the 190 needle I see that it is much longer than the one installed. The seller did tell me the machine was adjusted....I'm still trying to figure out exactly what it was adjusted to:

134

134-35

135x17

is there any way I can tell? 

Is this a job for a mechanic?

Does this subject need to be moved to a new topic heading??

thank you kindly:)

[Uwe]

It might be harder to figure out what needle system the machine was adjusted for than to revert the meachine back to the original System 190 setting.

To convert the machine back to System 190: insert a System 190 needle and adjust the needle bar height to bring the eye of the System 190 needle into the exact same position as the old needle. Done.

One way to do this in a practical manner is:

1. Rotate the hand wheel until the eye of the current needle is exactly level with the throat plate. 

2. Mark the position of the hand wheel with a method of your choice. It just needs to be repeatable with precision. ( tape a paper arrow on the machine pointing at the hand wheel and then mark a sharpie dot on the hand wheel)

3. Loosen the needle bar clamping screw(s) to move the needle bar up a little and insert the System 190 Needle. 

4. Adjust the needle bar height to line up the eye of the needle with the throat plate at the exact same hand wheel position you marked earlier. Tighten the needle bar clamping screw again.

The machine should now sew just as it did before, but now with the proper  System 190 needle.

At least that is how it plays out in my head while typing this in my hotel room.

 

 

[Pammy]

HI, I am cleaning and oiling a Pfaff 145 that hasn't been used in over 20 years, hoping it will work.   The instruction manual shows where to oil the machine, but it does not show where to oil the motor.  Does the motor need oil?  Thank you for your advice! 

[fibersport]

What kind of motor does it have?  Clutch motors 'MIGHT" be able to be lubricated, servo motors most likely not.  Does it run smoothly and quietly?  Again, some info on it might help.

[Pammy]

I believe it is a clutch motor.  I've plugged it in and it's quiet, but have not tested stitching yet as I need to oil the parts on the machine.  It is a 145 -H4, using system 190 needles.  

[fibersport]

Scroll up about 8 posts and read the post by Uwe, he talks about starting up a machine that has been sitting.  If you can post a couple of pictures it might help others to understand what you have which might bring more suggestions.

[Pammy]

Thank you.  I got it working and have oiled the machine.  It seemed OK until I got sewing.  The tension was off - the top thread was too loose.  I discovered that the screw that tightens up the spring is missing.  Would you know where to buy one or what I can to do replicate it?  (Picture attached).   Many thanks.  !!!

[AlZilla]

3 hours ago, Pammy said:

Thank you.  I got it working and have oiled the machine.  It seemed OK until I got sewing.  The tension was off - the top thread was too loose.  I discovered that the screw that tightens up the spring is missing.  Would you know where to buy one or what I can to do replicate it?  (Picture attached).   Many thanks.  !!!

Any kind of nut that will thread on there should do the trick. The OE part is probably a thumb screw but anything you can run on there, I'd expect to function fine.  A washer between the spring and nut would be a good idea.

Edited November 28, 2023 by AlZilla

[CowboyBob]

3 hours ago, Pammy said:

Thank you.  I got it working and have oiled the machine.  It seemed OK until I got sewing.  The tension was off - the top thread was too loose.  I discovered that the screw that tightens up the spring is missing.  Would you know where to buy one or what I can to do replicate it?  (Picture attached).   Many thanks.  !!!

We stock this nut,you could borrow the one off the bobbin winder to try the machine & if you need anymore more parts,needles or thread order it all @ once.

[Pink1977]

On 9/27/2017 at 11:31 AM, Uwe said:

It might be harder to figure out what needle system the machine was adjusted for than to revert the meachine back to the original System 190 setting.

To convert the machine back to System 190: insert a System 190 needle and adjust the needle bar height to bring the eye of the System 190 needle into the exact same position as the old needle. Done.

One way to do this in a practical manner is:

1. Rotate the hand wheel until the eye of the current needle is exactly level with the throat plate. 

2. Mark the position of the hand wheel with a method of your choice. It just needs to be repeatable with precision. ( tape a paper arrow on the machine pointing at the hand wheel and then mark a sharpie dot on the hand wheel)

3. Loosen the needle bar clamping screw(s) to move the needle bar up a little and insert the System 190 Needle. 

4. Adjust the needle bar height to line up the eye of the needle with the throat plate at the exact same hand wheel position you marked earlier. Tighten the needle bar clamping screw again.

The machine should now sew just as it did before, but now with the proper  System 190 needle.

At least that is how it plays out in my head while typing this in my hotel room.

 

 

incredible !! I have saved your explanation and i will on my new 145 too

Because mine is indicated H3 for example but i have 14 mm undercthe foot as a H4

So i understand that it has been modified

It was really really dirty and looks no oil for a long time 

So i don t think the adjustments has been done recently