singer 111w155 Singer 111w155 feed lifting cam slop

[kiddcaprix]

Hello all,

Can anyone tell me what kind of clearance should there be between the feed lifting cam fork and the feed lifting cam?  I have noticed a new sound coming from the feed mechanism area and noticed that my cam fork is pretty loose on the cam.  I think as the machine cycles through a stitch, I am hearing the fork "slap" the cam for lack of better words.  I have no reference to the correct clearance between the two components.  I may be able to get a video tonight of the "slop" that I have.  I would probably say that I can rock the cam fork about +/- .030" (.015" per side) about the cam.  To me this is way too much and probably causing the noise.  The machine seems to be stitching fine still.  If anyone can tell me how tight their cam and lifting fork is to each other, I can determine how I want to proceed with fixing it. 

Appreciate any experience, info or links to discussions about this (I have searched for anything on this and can't find much).  Thanks.

 

Regards,
Adam

[brmax]

I dont have a manual in front of me, so would start and say Eric may shed some good light on this. 

With that i can say its not a pressure fed system so the typical .0015- .003” is to tight, this being newer parts. So not really even a splash system so .005+ is tight imo. This system imo “ when “ having been recently oiled draws its oil from the bottom fork and then disperses it to the top through its rotation. So after above counsel the top must have an oil thicness clearance, while picking up its new supply from where ever as a full load or not wiped off.

 

Floyd

[kiddcaprix]

Thanks Floyd, what I assumed was A LOT of slop seems to be the case. A decently tight tolerance is what I figured it should be with respect to oiling tols.  Not knowing the history at all of this old girl, it seems that I might need to tighten that tolerance up.  I am wondering if I can "sleeve" the eccentric if it is just an offset diameter with something like an oilite bushing and then machine to correct tolerance.  This Singer does not see any production type work, so that "fix" might be good enough until I can procure some replacement components.

Thanks,

Adam 

[CowboyBob]

There's a gibe (thin piece of metal) on the right side of the feedcam that has a locking screw that keeps the adjuster screw tight ,so loosen the locking one(it comes in @ a 90 degree angle) then you can tighten it alittle  until the play is gone.Then role the machine around  & repeat on the other one.

 

 

 

 

[kiddcaprix]

Thanks CowboyBob, I wasn't aware of a gib in that area for any adjustment.  I will look at it more tonight.  Looking at the parts manual, there is a felt oiling pad that goes on the cam fork that I don't recall seeing on mine.  That might be causing the tolerance issues for sure if that thing is MIA.  Appreciate the responses.  Great knowledge here.

 

Regards,

Adam

[Uwe]

Personally, I'm waiting for a picture with an arrow. I don't think you all are talking about the same part.

[kiddcaprix]

Good call Uwe. This is not my machine, just an image of a 111w online I found quick (best one I can find since I'm not at home).  I have added the arrows to show the parts I am talking about.  Hope that helps.  The lifting cam fork rocks on the lifting cam by quite a bit.

Regards,
Adam

 

 

[brmax]

The screw above the red arrows is the same as my 212.

although the 212 has another above the mentioned, and very small, almost stud type.  I havent a clue how they adjust. My cam to fork hasn't any noticeable slack fwiw as i tilted it over to veiw. Again im only referencing mine not a 111

Floyd

[kiddcaprix]

Thanks Floyd.  I know in the service manuals I have riffled through, that screw is to adjust the exposed tooth height above the throat plate.  I keep leaning towards the fact that I might have lost the felt oiler (223655 shown below) somehow.  I will have to check tonight.  Don't know how bad the cam fork or cam would wear over time.   I guess maybe pulling some heavy fabrics through over time would wear that especially if the oil wasn't staying in place with the felt.   It just started making the "slapping" sound.  I assume I would have heard that for a while if that oiler was gone.  Thanks for the comments. 

Regards,

Adam

 

 

[dikman]

The felt oiler is just that, a method of keeping an oil coating on the fork/cam contact area. I guess if it's been missing for a long time and the area hasn't been oiled then there may have been excessive wear? If there is wear then replacement would probably be the only answer (could be a big job, assuming you could get the parts!).

Not something I've seen mentioned before.

[kiddcaprix]

I have been oiling that fork since I got the machine and never noticed the movement I have in the tolerance until the other night.  I will see if that felt is there tonight.  It looks to be a big undertaking to get to the cam. I can get the fork off reasonably easy but may have to pull the entire shaft out to get to the cam.  Henderson sewing claims to have the fork and cam on there website.  So that is a good thing.  It's also about $75 worth of parts.  Or, like I mentioned earlier, I can maybe make a sleeve to go over the cam with an interference fit and machine to a decent tolerance after (I have a machine shop in my barn!).  Still have to get the cam out though.  Thanks.

 

-Adam

[dikman]

Yeah, replacing that cam doesn't look like fun.

[brmax]

A photo of the surface condition of the cam would be great, look likes from the rear side, where its easily viewable. Or when the fork assembly was taken apart, both these could be interesting for sure  

Floyd

 

[dikman]

I just measured the clearance on my 111WSV77 and it's 10 thou total (being a 111 class I'd say the bottom end is going to be similar to yours).

[Uwe]

The clearance on my Singer 111W155 is about two sheets of paper. I don't think this is an area that warrants major expenses or work unless things are way off or worn down. If things are well oiled and moving freely, the cam will barely touch the bottom of that fork if at all. On my machine the underside of the upper arm of the fork is well glazed from constant contact with the lifting cam, the bottom shows almost no wear marks at all. 

I made a video taking the fork off my machine and inspecting it. If nothing else, it may give you a reference point to compare your machine against. 

 

[kiddcaprix]

Uwe, fantastic. Thank you for that. I haved watched your videos and they have helped me tremendously to get my 111w155 back in sewing conditions. I uploaded a video of my cam slop (I know, I did it in portrait and not landscape but it gets the point across). My felt is non-existent and has some decent wear. I didn't gauge it before i took it off, but that sound of it "slapping" in the video is what I am hearing. Looks like it has run dry for quite a while. I have been oiling since I got it earlier this spring.  Attached are the pics of the cam fork. I might try to shim it or see if I can just flip it and use the bottom side that dosent have much wear. Again, thanks for the video. Kinda cool that I maybe sparked a Uwe video. Ha. 

 

Regards,

Adam

Edited November 3, 2017 by kiddcaprix

[gottaknow]

This is a common issue on these machines. The cam on the shaft is harder steel than the fork, so that's where the wear ends up. The forks are easily replaced and are inexpensive. I don't depend on oil/felt. I use TriFlow grease, which comes in a tube. Stays lubed a long time. It's not that hard to replace the cam, but start with the fork. 

Regards, Eric 

 

[dikman]

Can definitely see wear in that first photo.

[Constabulary]

Uwe is right, barely a sheet of paper clearance between cam and fork. I have a very good used spare cam and spare fork - diameter of the cam is 17.40mm and the fork is 17.60mm so thats 0.2mm (approx) slop - rather less depends on where I measure on the inside of the fork. So you can compare measures and have an rough idea of how worn your parts are. When I put a sheet of paper between it the cam still holds it.

 

Edited November 3, 2017 by Constabulary

[kiddcaprix]

Thank you all for the info.  This is awesome that all of this knowledge is finger tips away.  Really truly appreciate it.  I am going to see what I can do with what I have right now.  I think I am going to machine the surface of the fork to accept a shim of sorts.  The cam is galled, but I mic'd it and it seems to be consistent diametrically along the width so I shouldn't have to replace that.  Might just try and clean the galling up with some emery cloth.  Eric, great idea on the TriFlow.  I will defiantly be trying that out.  Might throw a piece of felt back in to help hold some of that grease.  Cant hurt.  If I fubar it too much, I can grab a replacement.  But why not try and fix it first.  Here is a better shot of the cam itself.  I have a cast on my left thumb until Monday, so the machining fix will have to wait a few days.  Again, thank you everyone for the input and advise.   

Eric, do you use the TriFlow on the gears as well?  Seems like a good candidate for that.  Thanks.

Kind Regards,

Adam

 

[gottaknow]

I only use grease on the feed cam and fork. I oil the rest of the machine. Rotating gears throw grease everywhere, well at the much higher speeds used in factories at least. No reason you couldn't though.

Regards, Eric