Schmetz needle for thread '20' thick

[tafspeed]

As the title says, I'm looking for the correct type of Schmetz needles for thread of 20 thickness. I live in Belgium so need metric sizes. 

Can anyone help me out?

 

regards

Manu 

[Wizcrafts]

This needle and thread size chart should answer your question.

[Matt S]

TKT 20? I typically use a metric 140 but having the closest sizes up and down on hand is useful if a particular combination of thread, material and seam thickness behaves unusually.

[tafspeed]

Thanks guys, I will study this chart for a bit :-). 

All confusing these numbers. And then I still need to find a correct needle point..... 

[Matt S]

21 minutes ago, tafspeed said:

Thanks guys, I will study this chart for a bit :-). 

All confusing these numbers. And then I still need to find a correct needle point..... 

What material are you stitching? For leather you want a sharp, cutting point. There are several different point styles, each giving a different aesthetic and functional effect, but not all are available in any given needle class. I usually use LR/RTW (right twist) points which give a slanted stitch in most thicknesses of leather. This style is available from every manufacturer, size and needle class I use, from tiny 15 class nm100 for TKT40 up to the framing nail 331 nm 250 for TKT7 in my heavy harness machine. This means that seams of different thread sizes have a consistent look, both where I use different thread sizes in one product and between different products I produce.

[mikesc]

You are on the same system as me..metric..so..you need a 140 needle.and, as Matt says also get some a size smaller, so size 120 ,and bigger 160..the needle point depends on what you are trying to sew..and also on what kind of stitch you'd like.

Matt beat me to it :-) and in more detail :-)

Edited January 16, 2018 by mikesc

[tafspeed]

I will mainly stitch leather and vinyl. I recent purchased a Durkopp 239-125 after a couple of years of handsewing leather. So I am a novice :-).

[tafspeed]

I found 120 needles from Schmetz (bought them online from a guy selling all kinds of needles)marked:

CANU: 20:05 1
NM:120 SIZE:19
134 (R)
135x5
DBx1
DPx5

These needles are +/-5mm shorter than the ones I am using so I will have to change the timing of the machine, no?

Now I am using:

CANU32:10X1
NM:130 SIZE:21
134-35 LR
DPx35 LR

What do all these numbers mean? I am getting lost in needle hell.

Edited January 22, 2018 by tafspeed

[Matt S]

Those numbers mean basically three things: the class of needle, the size of needle and the type of point those needles have. The reason why there's so many numbers is that they say the same thing in lots of different 'languages'.

 

CANU: 20:05 1

This is the manufacturer's CAtalogue NUmber. I don't understand it and I don't feel the need. Every time I learn something new it pushes some old information out. I once went on a wine-tasting course and forgot how to drive.

NM:120 SIZE:19

This is the size of needle, which determines the size of thread it can work with. NM is metric, in hundredths of a millimetre -- NM120 is 1.20mm diameter. The other size is what Singer used to call that size, and is commonly used still in the United States.

134 (R)
135x5
DBx1
DPx5

These are the needle class, expressed in the way that different manufacturers call it. There is some logic to them but it's easier just to learn what works with your machine(s). Here also is the needle point information. In this case they are R, meaning round (normal fabric) needles. Again different manufacturers use different designations but usually with leather LR ("leather") points are used, which cut a small slit in the leather twisted slightly to the right of the direction of travel.

There is some limited cross-compatibility with different classes, especially if you re-time but so long as you can find the correct needles I don't really see the point. If your machine is setup for 134-35, buy 134-35 not 135x5. I don't know about Continental suppliers but College Sewing in the UK stocks a wide range: https://www.college-sewing.co.uk/schmetz-industrial-needles/3210-134-35-schmetz-needles/ I have dealt with them many times .Their prices are reasonable, they have a wide range of goods and they dispatch quickly.

[Wizcrafts]

Lowering the needle bar to accommodate short needles has the consequence of endangering the bottom of the needle bar thread guide and tops of the presser and alternating feet. Compensating by lowering the height and lift of the feet means less sewing thickness capacity under the feet.

[tafspeed]

Thank you very much for the info. You guys are great.

 

regards

Manu

[Singermania]

Hi this is a better chart for those in metric....if your thread is 20, the that's most likely M20 which the guys in the US will call 138..... so the needle is a 140 which means its 1.4mm thick, or the old singer number or 22    Wizz's chart does not show the metric thread size.   When you get time print out the chart and laminate it.

[RockyAussie]

I think both charts are helpful but I would have thought that the (Tkt) sizes in the second column as shown in the chart that @Wizcrafts is referring to could be taken as  being the metric sizes?? I only bother to point this out as the chart above does not have show all of the common needle sizes. For instance above it says for metric 40 to use a 110/18, but does not mention as in the other chart the 100/16 needles which I would more commonly use for that thread size. Same thing with the 19/120 needle size for the 30m thread etc. Often different leather/materials behave differently with one needle and being aware of close alternative sizes is important to know I think.

[Singermania]

Sure RockyAussie, its not a competition, the guy is from Europe so would be more inclined to recognise M20 rather than ticket 20.....doesn't hurt to have a second chart.

The charts are only a guide, you cant expect them to be exact for every thread ever made.... anybody  can work out to try up and down to see what works best.   It also shows a 200 needle for M13 which might be better at 180... but when someone puts something up for nothing its hard to complain.