JLSleather Report post Posted March 25, 2018 I don't know where these people come from. Everywhere, I guess ... Can you make a pattern for a shoulder holster rig? I make holsters for veterans - can I get a discount on buying ALL your patterns? Can you cut me off just the best part of the hide so I don't have to buy a whole piece? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
battlemunky Report post Posted March 25, 2018 ....it ain't like you don't do enough for free/make available a bunch of patterns already. If they ever took the time to make something instead of ripping things off they would know what a chore it is. You are appreciated Sir! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sheilajeanne Report post Posted March 25, 2018 Reminds me of when I used to work for a well -known nursery in Canada (Weall and Cullen) and a customer asked me if I could cut a foot off a 6' Christmas tree, and sell it to her for the same price as a 5' tree... She actually made me go and ask my manager if this were possible. Of course, the answer was a big, fat NO! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lobo Report post Posted April 23, 2018 I suppose there is nothing wrong with using patterns created by someone else to make a product you want for yourself. Perhaps it is okay to sell products made from patterns someone else created, but I have reservations about that. In my experience, pattern-making is a fundamental part of the creative process, and one that never truly stops. I was always "tweaking" my patterns based upon results, evaluating finished products with an eye toward improvement (functional, aesthetic, or to facilitate production). I was always working on new product ideas, working from a clean sheet of paper to a pattern, pattern to prototype, prototype to revisions in the pattern, product testing for function, comfort in use, etc, and it was not unusual for a new product idea to take a year or more (and dozens of prototypes) before it was considered ready for the marketplace. Not everyone has the inherent ability to visualize a finished product, draw the image created in the mind, extrapolate that image into patterns for all the various pieces required, and turn it into what the mind envisioned. I understand that. What I have difficulty in understanding is the person who begs, borrows, buys, copies, or steals a pattern to make something held up as "my creation". I retired in 2015, selling my business to a good family with leather working skills and business background that convinced me they could make a go of it. What I owned worth selling consisted primarily of a recognized trade name with brand recognition, some tools and equipment, and thousands upon thousands of patterns, each of which represented hours and hours of development effort. Without those the business would have had little or no value at the moment of my retirement. Just my $0.02 worth. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JLSleather Report post Posted April 24, 2018 Patterns aren't that difficult... only ONE INSIDE DIMENSION actually fits - for example - a 5" 1911 .45cal. Certainly there are variations in the cosmetics, but it either fits or it doesn't. But I'm never swayed by 'name dropping', or names at all. Everybody messed with leather knows who Al Stohlman was, even if they don't carve much. I don't know if he was THE BEST, but he certainly was the BEST KNOWN. Which is my point -- being widely recognized didn't make him any better or worse than if nobody ever heard of him. Holster makers have pretty much all heard of Bianchi, but I don't see anything stellar about his PRINTED work (I'm willing to accept the possibility he may have done things MORE IMPRESSIVE and I just haven't seen them). What's in a name? Nothing. When I was a kid, you couldn't eat breakfast cereal without seeing a picture of Bruce Jenner - 5 time olympic gold... blahblah.. Now he's ... WHATEVER he is. ... Which was the point about veterans. That "it's for the vets" thing carries NO weight here, but I've got that one a number of times. I've known vets who were great guys, doing their thing, raising families, minding their business. AND I've known vets who are now serving prison sentences. So that alone buys nothing. (It was a vet who blew up the OK city building, and a vet became the DC Sniper). COPS about the same way - and you see a lot of those around leather, particularly holsters. While some of them may have once been up to something commendable and worth recognition, many are now simply fat old men who have come to think they are owed something, or hope to use their history of not getting a job as some sort of "reference' FUNNY story -- a while back, I was barking by the street with yet another of those people unwilling to tend to their own life. Guy down the street walked over, invited himself to the conversation, and got told whatever is going on here was not up to him. And I admit, I deliberately added a bit of "smart mouth" in the tone. And the guy says, "in case you didn't know, I'm a cop". And I answered, "since I JUST MET you, I don't see where that could possibly be my fault." So, conclude: don't tell me your a vet, or a cop, or ex-cop, whatever, and assume that "earns" you something. I have TWO brothers-in-law who are cops - in different countries - and I wouldn't close both eyes around either of them. I may have brought some of it on myself. I have been known to sell things at or below cost to help a guy out, I've GIVEN things to people I thought they could use, so maybe people decided that I do that all the time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Colt W Knight Report post Posted April 24, 2018 (edited) I feel your pain. I use to be extremely active in the custom electric guitar market, and posted on the the guitar forums a lot. I finally quit the guitar forum because I was constantly getting asked questions from around the world about guitar building. I didn't mind the questions at all, but what really pissed me off is no one wanted to put the effort forth to make high quality stuff. I would lay out the labor intensive steps on how to apply a high gloss lacquer finish or build nice guitar necks, and people would always me to make up short cuts or easy ways out. If you can't afford the tools you need, you need to get creative. If you want to half ass it, it will come out half ass. Don't even get me started on famous guitar players or pickers who worked for famous people. Always wanting something for nothing. The worst ones were nobody bands that no one knew telling me I should give them a guitar because they are the next big thing in music, and me giving them a guitar will be good for me. I always told them I would give them the "artist" price, which to me was 30% more than I normally charge. Edited April 24, 2018 by Colt W Knight Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sheilajeanne Report post Posted April 24, 2018 My mother did knitting and crocheting as a hobby. She passed away in November of 2016. Last summer, after the sale of her house, I brought back a trailer load of her stuff to sell at a yard sale. This included some of the things she'd knitted or crocheted. One of the things that wasn't really part of the sale was a hand crocheted queen sized bedspread. I could only imagine how much work had gone into that beautiful piece! In the final hours of any yard sale, you get the bargain hunters dropping by. A lady came past who had been there earlier in the day. She crocheted, so had bought some of the yarn I was selling for a very cheap price (fill a shopping bag for $2.00.) She had also looked at the quilt earlier in the day, but I told her I really hadn't planned to sell it, and was unwilling to put a price on it. When she came back, she wanted that quilt. Problem was, she wanted it for $20.00. To me, that was an insult to my mom's memory, and all the hard work that had gone into it. I gave her a firm 'no', and she walked away. As I already have a beautiful handmade quilt on my own bed, and the quilt was white, very heavy and difficult to wash (and I have a black cat that sleeps on my bed) I gave the quilt away to a cousin. At least it's still in the family, cherished by someone who knew my mom personally. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lobo Report post Posted April 25, 2018 JLS: I understand your points about veterans and cops (I happen to fit in both categories). Used to receive requests all the time for veterans discounts, donations for benefits, etc. I liked to respond by asking what they could do for an old broke-down two-tour Vietnam paratrooper, pathfinder, combat infantryman having trouble finding a place that would take one of my Purple Heart medals in exchange for a cup of coffee. Hundreds of young cops started every inquiry with a request for their 'police discount'. I enjoyed explaining to them that when I was a police chief I fired any cop who I found soliciting gratuities or using his position for personal benefit. When I came home from Vietnam we learned quickly that veterans were not welcomed in many social circles. For about 30 years or so the Purple Heart Medal was viewed as concrete proof of stupidity. Cops weren't held in high esteem at nice parties either; I learned to tell people that I was a garbage collector (at least partially true!) so I wouldn't have to put up with rudeness and insults. I joked with friends, asking them not to tell my mother I was a cop because she thought I had a real job playing the piano in a whorehouse. Twenty-one months in Vietnam, wounded by bullets twice and shrapnel three times. Over 20 years as a cop, shot once, stabbed twice, jaw broken and 11 teeth lost to one swing of a steel fence post, several broken bones and a skull fracture over the years. Drew my salary, paid my bills, raised my children, and never expected anything for nothing. Working in the leather shop was downright peaceful! Wrapping up my 68th orbit around the sun and starting to think about spending some of my retirement funds, which I have never drawn a dime from before. For those who haven't discovered it yet, compound interest remains the greatest force known to man! Enjoy life! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SouthernCross Report post Posted April 27, 2018 Damn, Lobo! You've been beat to hell, haven't you? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lobo Report post Posted April 28, 2018 12 hours ago, SouthernCross said: Damn, Lobo! You've been beat to hell, haven't you? Only a little bit, mostly a long time ago. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Silverd Report post Posted June 4, 2018 On 4/24/2018 at 10:12 AM, JLSleather said: Patterns aren't that difficult... only ONE INSIDE DIMENSION actually fits - for example - a 5" 1911 .45cal. Certainly there are variations in the cosmetics, but it either fits or it doesn't. But I'm never swayed by 'name dropping', or names at all. Everybody messed with leather knows who Al Stohlman was, even if they don't carve much. I don't know if he was THE BEST, but he certainly was the BEST KNOWN. Which is my point -- being widely recognized didn't make him any better or worse than if nobody ever heard of him. Holster makers have pretty much all heard of Bianchi, but I don't see anything stellar about his PRINTED work (I'm willing to accept the possibility he may have done things MORE IMPRESSIVE and I just haven't seen them). What's in a name? Nothing. When I was a kid, you couldn't eat breakfast cereal without seeing a picture of Bruce Jenner - 5 time olympic gold... blahblah.. Now he's ... WHATEVER he is. ... Which was the point about veterans. That "it's for the vets" thing carries NO weight here, but I've got that one a number of times. I've known vets who were great guys, doing their thing, raising families, minding their business. AND I've known vets who are now serving prison sentences. So that alone buys nothing. (It was a vet who blew up the OK city building, and a vet became the DC Sniper). COPS about the same way - and you see a lot of those around leather, particularly holsters. While some of them may have once been up to something commendable and worth recognition, many are now simply fat old men who have come to think they are owed something, or hope to use their history of not getting a job as some sort of "reference' FUNNY story -- a while back, I was barking by the street with yet another of those people unwilling to tend to their own life. Guy down the street walked over, invited himself to the conversation, and got told whatever is going on here was not up to him. And I admit, I deliberately added a bit of "smart mouth" in the tone. And the guy says, "in case you didn't know, I'm a cop". And I answered, "since I JUST MET you, I don't see where that could possibly be my fault." So, conclude: don't tell me your a vet, or a cop, or ex-cop, whatever, and assume that "earns" you something. I have TWO brothers-in-law who are cops - in different countries - and I wouldn't close both eyes around either of them. I may have brought some of it on myself. I have been known to sell things at or below cost to help a guy out, I've GIVEN things to people I thought they could use, so maybe people decided that I do that all the time. ...Patterns aren't that difficult? Oh my! Perhaps for holsters which are fixed to the functional geometry of a specific host iron but make an original curvy multi panel hand bag or custom wearable item and the process of pattern creation takes on a life of its own. Just saying my friend! Silverd Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JLSleather Report post Posted June 4, 2018 Well, we were talking about holster patterns. As for that other stuff, I just meant things that a man would do. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RockyAussie Report post Posted June 4, 2018 4 minutes ago, JLSleather said: Well, we were talking about holster patterns. As for that other stuff, I just meant things that a man would do. Well.....Thems fighten words I reckon. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Silverd Report post Posted June 4, 2018 OMG...richer men than you design products purchased by smarter woman than you...that must make you feel funny huh! Silverd Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fredk Report post Posted June 5, 2018 On 3/25/2018 at 8:36 PM, Sheilajeanne said: Reminds me of when I used to work for a well -known nursery in Canada (Weall and Cullen) and a customer asked me if I could cut a foot off a 6' Christmas tree, and sell it to her for the same price as a 5' tree... She actually made me go and ask my manager if this were possible. Of course, the answer was a big, fat NO! My son told me of a customer he had recently. No.1 son rebuilds, refurbishes, repairs and sells modern classic BMW cars. A customer came in, liked a 5 series, wanted to buy it. Went away, came back a few days later; he could not afford the insurance on that car with a big capacity engine. Would my son swop out the big engine for a smaller capacity one then sell him the car at the price of a 5 series with the smaller engine? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JLSleather Report post Posted June 7, 2018 On 6/4/2018 at 7:53 PM, fredk said: . Would my son swop out the big engine for a smaller capacity one then sell him the car at the price of a 5 series with the smaller engine? Oh, yeah - that counts. I saw a thing - maybe best word to use for it -- where a guy took a pattern from an old publication, offered it for sale, then wrote a paragraph in the sales pitch that it violates copyright law to copy, sell, give, distribute "his" pattern. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
